Episode 9 - Jason Andrews - On Humility & Empathy

Jason Andrews (00:00):
I want to be close to my kids and I'm not gonna, I can't parent them like I did before, as they're figuring out life, because they're gonna make choices that I may not agree with or may not like, like, they love it when they see our mess and you know, can learn from it versus just having to go through it. You know?

Young Han (00:24):
Hey guys, I'm young, a full-time dad and a full-time professional with the goal to become the best parent possible. The girl dad show is my journey interviewing fellow working parents aspiring to be both good at work and parenting. I'm gonna do this by gathering and sharing unfiltered perspectives. My guest to join me as I research parenthood one interview at a time.

Young Han (00:45):
Jason Andrew, thank you so much for joining me on my show today.

Jason Andrews (00:50):
Absolutely glad to be here. Young.

Young Han (00:52):
I'm really, really excited to be, to interview you. I feel like I've learned so much about parenthood and being a dad and a working professional from you. So I'm really excited to get, did I get the chance to interview you on my show?

Jason Andrews (01:04):
Sounds awesome. I'm looking forward to it.

Young Han (01:06):
I have to ask you about your glasses before we get started. Those are looking really, really

Jason Andrews (01:10):
Cool. Oh, you like 'em I can't see anymore without 'em like, I never had glasses my entire life until, well, I guess maybe like five years ago when I was 40, my eye doctor said, you know, like two or three years, you're gonna need glasses. And I was like, whatever. Yeah. And then I was like, woke up one morning. I was like, what I can't read? And so here I am now I can't read now I have to wear 'em all the time.

Young Han (01:34):
So now you're using it as like a fashion statement, cuz that's a bold, like white rim, you know, with the black on the, on, on the bottom. I mean that's a statement. I like it. I man.

Jason Andrews (01:43):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you're gonna go with glasses, you gotta go something cool.

Young Han (01:46):
That's right. That's right. I mean, there was a point I think in, I think it was in high school or college where I got like glasses with just like basically windows, you know, they were like just glasses, no prescription just for the look of it. Cause I felt like you look so much more smarter and sophisticated with glasses on than without, so yeah, lean into it. If you have to wear it, you know,

Jason Andrews (02:05):
Wait and you, do you wear contacts or glasses? I don't think you do.

Young Han (02:08):
I, I have reading glasses. So when I have to do a lot of reading or long driving I'll wear 'em I can't see things from far away, so it's not terrible. So legally I can drive without it, but it, it gets after a while. I do need 'em and it's just part of growing up and just kidding. And just looking at these, in these screens all day, right. It's just like, I can't, I can't imagine this being helpful for our eyes and straining with the, all the blue light and stuff. So agree. Yeah. How many pairs of glasses do you have? Just one that's it? 

Jason Andrews (02:36):
My wife gets a pair of glasses every year. I'm like these work. Why do I need new glasses? 

Young Han (02:41):
Yeah, they look cool. I love 'em. I love white as an accent color. So it's really great. It's like a really fun color that you chose I'm really, they matched my AirPods. That's right. That's right now you just gotta get the white watch band and then you'll be like, yeah.

Jason Andrews (02:54):
Exactly. Right, all the way.

Young Han (02:56):
That's right. Hey. So just because we need to make sure that we're also entertaining the listeners, not just myself and your glasses and your fashion choices. Why don't you tell us who you are and what you do for a living?

Jason Andrews (03:06):
Sure. My name is Jason Andrew and I am in California, just outta San Francisco. And I've been an entrepreneur for the last 15 plus years, mostly in the insurance base. So started a couple of companies, both in the insurance, brokerage space and technology. I have three teenage boys and I have a wife that I've been married to. Who's stuck with me for 24 years, I think.

Young Han (03:33):
Nice. And what do you do right now?

Jason Andrews (03:34):
We were acquired like 10 months ago by a company in finance, which is a company Ireland, which is public on the Australian exchange kind of odd. So it's like three different continents and I'm their chief Alliance officer. So I handle the partnership and kinda strategy stuff.

Young Han (03:50):
I love it. Very, very exciting. Congratulations on the new role. And I'm also obviously the acquisition. I know that was a really this year and a half of work and excitement for you. And it was really fun to watch from the outside and, and then really fun to watch you kind of land in this really cool role and position a really large company, given the history of how scrappy we used to be back when we, I were building up many, many moons ago

Jason Andrews (04:15):
Wouldn't have gotten there. Hadn't helped.

Young Han (04:17):
Oh, thanks for saying that. That's really what I was trying to get at. So I appreciate you feeding right into me, pandering into that. So I'd love to know what kind of projects are you currently working on or do you have any big things that you're trying to focus on AOS or as the new chief Alliance officer? Any like major initiatives you're you're focusing on?

Jason Andrews (04:33):
Yeah, we're working on building out a, a partner strategy and ecosystem globally, which is helping with a SI partners. So sales integrators, like ERs and young and Pricewaterhouse, Coopers, Deloitte, and folks like that, that help implement product into big insurance carriers. Then also working with other technology companies that are complimentary. We, we did a deal just past the acquisition with company that's doing AI and machine and learning around claims and, and so forth. And, and then we just acquired a company called spree. So they do machine learning and AI around claims and, and so forth. So we're working on a lot of building out partnership and ecosystems. And just when I told you that there was everything was turned off, I just totally,

Young Han (05:17):
I'm not ending that out. We're gonna keep that in there. Just everyone knows that you have a hard time I'm following instructions.

Jason Andrews (05:23):
Yeah, totally. and then we're expanding into some new GE geographies. And so looking at those markets.

Young Han (05:31):
That's awesome, man. Sounds like a lot of big projects and I love how like yeah. Understated you say it in, in the manner that you say it in it's yeah, just some, just some global integrations and systems building. Love it. That's great. Tell me about your kids.  I know them, but I want our listeners to know about your awesome kids and just how old they are, who they are and where they're currently at

Jason Andrews (05:52):
Three awesome boys. Youngest is Nathan. He's 15. He'll be a sophomore in high school. He has played club soccer for a number of years and they're all gamers. They all play video games. They didn't get that gene from me cause I just don't play video games that much. I mean, I played some and then so he's, he's cool. Thomas just got his driver's license today. He's super excited. So he has like old, like a 1990 convertible Volkswagen or something like that at old. Cabria, so he's stoked. He has freedom now. So, but he's, he's a programmer. So he's he just graduated from high school like two weeks ago and he just got his license today. And so he's off to college and he is driving and he's, we're excited. And he wants to study programming, but he is taught himself how to code. So he, that's kind of, he's an engineer type. And then my oldest, oh, and Thomas is 17. And then my oldest is Wesley. He is 19 and he's in his second year of college and he's the artist in the family. So he's, he's working as a lifeguard right now to put himself through school. Well, not really, we're helping him, but you know, he's having fun working <laugh> and then he has written a couple of books and he does music and he does photography and I think he wants to be a screenwriter.

Young Han (07:12):
Oh, awesome. Yeah. That's amazing. I love how different all, all three of your boys are. That's a,

Jason Andrews (07:18):
They're totally different. It's so weird. Not, I mean it's weird.

Young Han (07:22):
Yeah. Yeah. How do you manage that? Cause like, I feel like my two girls are starting to like separate in their personalities, even at this young age. I'm assuming that just gets further and further emboldened and, and defined as they get older.

Jason Andrews (07:33):
Well, I was, we were visiting our family last week and I was talking Wendy's dad is he was a, a civil engineer, all of his career. And it's so very meticulous, very detailed. And that's not me like in terms of like, he, he, he built every house. They lived in, he, you know, installed big sewer systems for cities. I don't have that gene and my other boys didn't get it. But Thomas, like from the time he was a couple of years old, he was build things from Legos. He, we would always give him the stuff for Myke to put together. He built his own like video game console instead of buying one, got all the components carved out the wood. So that doesn't really directly answer your question, but it's really interesting how that nurture versus nature thing works because they're, they have their own first, a really young age. But I think just trying to I've always am and, and, and have tried to just get to know them individually. It's really easy to get into this mode of trying to have like cookie cutter, like read a book or something and say like, well, here's how I'm supposed to like raise my kids, but, but just trying to get to know like really know who are they? Like, what's the unique, what's their love language, what's their unique skillset. What do they get excited about? And, and then try and like adapt to know them, you know?

Young Han (08:49):
Yeah. And that's also really interesting cuz I think it is the nature nurture concept, but it's also gotta be different with boys too. I'm assuming there's like a point, well, you don't have any girls, you, I guess you don't necessarily know personally, but yeah. I'd imagine that like there's a lot of like bonding that goes on that's a little bit different than with a girl. Like for example, like I'm sure there's, there's like stages that they're going through and you can talk to them about it and all those other things. Yeah. That's really. So have you kind of pushed any of 'em into a certain direction or are you just kind of like going with the flow and just,

Jason Andrews (09:22):
Yeah, I haven't really. And you know, so I struggle with either sometimes feeling like we're great parents and sometimes found like, I, I just haven't done anything to influence them and I'm being facetious a little bit, but I've definitely not been like, like I've not pushed them in a direction. I've really tried to understand what are they excited about? What do they wanna do and then support them in that. And you know, and so I think the ways we have pushed them is trying to help them to think for themselves and make good choices about who they wanna be and their character and then what do they want to do? And you know, so like, you know, like with Wesley, I don't know that I would necessarily go, Hey, you should be a writer. That's a really tough industry to get into right.

Young Han (10:09):
Automatically speaking. Yeah. You know?

Jason Andrews (10:11):
Yeah. I mean, depending on your measure of success, I guess that's that, I mean, that's the framework I'm coming from, right. I mean, if you think about living in the bay area and supporting a family and say I'm gonna be a writer, it just, statistically, that's more challenging than like I'm gonna go and learn how to code and get a job at Google. Right. So, but it's what he's passionate about. And so what I'm trying to do is help him learn the skills to learn how to network and market himself and the things that he doesn't like to do that are critical to being successful, whether he's the best friend in the world. Right. And so that's kind of how I've thought about it, which is like, what are they really excited about that? How do we build the support around them versus like going, well, Hey, you need to be an entrepreneur because that's what I've done or you need to yeah, you know? 

Young Han (10:53):
Yeah. And, and that's also kind of goes to the other thing that I like to talk about or think about when I think about parenting is like how much of it is like you educating them and how much of it is you leading by example. Right. And that whole conundrum of like them soaking up, you know, what parenting is or what what success looks like by being like you and watching you, or, or basically learning from you. But I, I think it's really interesting for me to point out for everyone else that I, I find that you have always, he is made a very, very big point in your career and you've always been aspiring for more and more in your professional career. And you've always succeeded and been successful in a lot of different endeavors, but you never stopped also striving to be a great parent, and it's one of the things that I, I really admire and love about you. And, and quite frankly, it's one of the reasons why I even started this podcast. It's this whole concept of like, why not both, you know, and like, let's try, let's try to actually strive for both. And there were so many instances when we had critical meetings in time when we were working together at limelight where you would, you would literally stop what you're doing to be present for your kids. And it's kind of like the, the first time, like the kind of the idea planted in my head that as parents, you're constantly figuring out how to best allocate your time. And it's one of the situations where you have to spend time being a good business person and spend time being a good parent. And I, I, I love that about you and you are always, you're, you're always striving for that balance. And always trying to figure out what that looks like to the point of like, almost being awkward in either, either the parenting side or the business side. And I think that that was always really fun to watch you do that. That being said, I do wanna know, like if you could share with us your childhood I'd love to see if like, you know, how you were brought up and how that impacted how you were as a parent.

Jason Andrews (12:30):
Yeah. So, and maybe we can come back to this, you said, and I appreciate that. And it's, it's hard, right? I mean, we've talked about it so I can come back to, to kind of those choices between like work and family and, and all that. So I think a lot of probably what drives me on both of those is that I didn't have a lot of success. My parents didn't and didn't have lot, you know, growing up or a lot of parenting. So I think I kind of flipped that on its head and, and wanted to give my kids a different experience. So, you know, we were on welfare and, you know, my mom was a hippie and moved around a lot. So I think, you know, like in the first five years of my life, we lived in like a bread truck, lived in a tent, lived in an abandoned house wow. In electricity, like just some crazy places. And, and then later on, you know, it was a little bit more stable, but there was a time then like from fourth grade through high school where I lived, like for a couple years, we lived in like a yeah. Trailer with no water, no run, no electricity, nothing. It was like a tiny little trailer. And so that was not a fun experience <laugh> yeah. Say the least. And you know, so I learned a lot through that and, and I just lived with my mom, so my dad wasn't there. And so I had lots of, I think male role models, you know, through high school and college and later on, but it was really mostly my mom and I, and then for a number of years, my mom did drugs. And so she wasn't really there emotionally during that time. And then I was on my own from what, since I was 17, so that I think, you know, shaped a lot of how I think. And then my wife had a totally different experience, right. Her parents for 50 years, she had a pretty stable, upper middle class life and very like, you know, both parents at home and all that. So yeah, that's, that's my childhood and, and background.

Young Han (14:26):
Yeah. It's wild. I, I, I mean, just to like, think about the stories that you've shared with me and, and just the stories that you just shared right now at a high level. I mean, and all the different things that go with the, the new one of what you just said. It's amazing to think about like how far you've come. Right. Both as a parent and as a, as a professional. And it's, it's like one of the things that always makes me curious, it's like that matrix scene, like, you know, with the vase, you know, like, would you have broken the VA if I'd said something you're not with the Oracle, like, I like always wonder, like, if that's what drives you to strive to be so good at both things, you know, being a parent and being so successful in work, what do you think?

Jason Andrews (15:01):
Yes. I mean, it certainly does. I mean, there, there's definitely a sense of a, a lot of the, the chaos. I didn't want to repeat or didn't want my kids to have to go through now, you know, I mean like, like any family, I mean, they go through their own things and they have to, you know, work through that. And there's there's issues we always have to, to work through, but I just wanted to have a much more stable life and have some balance also. So, I mean, I've been really reflective on that my whole adult life and, you know, and have a really good relationship with my mom now. And she quit drugs, you know, 30 years ago and she's become an amazing woman, but we've had to talk through it a lot. Like, you know, Hey, what was going on here in this situation and what happened there?

Jason Andrews (15:48):
You know? And so here I am, and, and she did us, we went up for her 70th birthday, not so long ago and had this amazing talk and she's just become an incredible woman, but it's taken a lot of time to reflect. And it's interesting just how much that still affects you as an adult even. Yeah. And stuff that she still feels about it as a 70 year old woman. Right. Wow. And we have these amazing talks about it. And, and then about her are thoughts about us being parents and her grandkids and like the whole thing. And so it's just, I don't know. I find it all really fascinating.

Young Han (16:18):
I'm fascinated right now. I can't believe you, you unpack that with her. You like go into it.

Jason Andrews (16:23):
Oh yeah, no, we have, we have a really, like, I was just telling her, it took us years young to, to just probably for like 20 to 40, right. To just really, you know, we had times where it was really tough or we weren't close. There were times where, you know, I was I'd felt hurt or angry, or she felt critical of us cuz the way we raised our kids or, you know, like whatever it is, like all these things. But like, so every time we would, she would come down, we would like have these talks in the way of the airport and just, they, they like, they got better and better over the years. And now over the last probably seven to 10 years, it's just become a really cool relationship. And so there's not really many topics we don't talk about. And my kids know all about the background. She knows that they know they talk with her and we have all really learned from it and try to keep figuring out, like we become better and better human beings through just all the stuff we've gone through. And she helps other people that are homeless and on drugs. And it's just a really cool thing.

Young Han (17:22):
Wow. So she's actually even like turned around and like done a lot of giving back. Totally. Yeah. Wow. And so I, I mean, this sounds like it's like an incredible test of empathy and patience because I, I mean, I'm, I'm probably paraphrasing or put, projecting my feelings, but based on like what I've heard about your childhood, I mean, I I'd assume that there's probably a lot of resentment and concerns and questions and for you to go, not only forgive it, but also try to build that relationship back up and unpack it is, is massive.

Jason Andrews (17:54):
Yeah. And I mean, I had, you know, and you, and I've talked about this some, I mean, I, I have, I think my faith drives a lot of that too, you know? I mean, I had a pretty big life changing experience and I was like 20 or whatnot and that's, that's carried with me as well. And so I don't, you know, like there's been, so do I like, do I get resentful and, and bitter is that, you know, a challenge of course, like there's times where things come up like that. But for the most part, like that's like with my mom, at least we can have those conversations and we've been like, oh yeah, here's what's going on. And so that's been great, but I don't think that, I think it all happened for a reason. It made me who I am. Do you know what I mean? So I like, I don't look back and like, oh, I wish it had been different. I mean, I, I think it, those experiences all shaped me and, and there's people that I can help out and it's helped shaped the way I raised my kids because I can tell them those things, what I went through, the choices I made, the things that were happened to me and the things that I did out of being, you know, angry or mad at the world, and it didn't really help anything. And so, you know, they can learn from that, right? Like we've had great talks where like, one of my kids said, you know, I was kind of nervous because like I told them a lot about kind of drinking and drugs and partying and I thought, oh, maybe that's gonna influence them. Maybe they'll do that. And Wesley told me at one point he was like, you know, dad, all your stories. Like I, they had kids in high school party and doing drugs, whatever. And they were like, all the, you told me, totally dissuaded us wanting to do any of that stuff. Oh, wow. You just listened to your stories, you know, they're like, nah, we're not gonna do that.

Young Han (19:18):
Yeah. That's amazing. So basically I'll tell my kids all the, about all the parties and, and drugs and, and drinking that I did to, to dissuade them.

Jason Andrews (19:25):
Yeah. I think sometimes people feel like, well, I can't share my dirt with my kids cuz then they're gonna feel like they're gonna go and do it. But it's, I think a lot of times it's actually opposite. Like they love it when they see our mass and you know, can learn from it versus just having to go through it. You know? I think it helps them make better decisions when they see like, oh, you know, you, you're not perfect as a parent.

Young Han (19:46):
Yeah. And I've also read something about that. Like, you know, after the age of like you, you know, 12 or 13, you stop being a parent and you're not really teaching them anymore. You're just like mentoring and coaching them. Right. And so when you think about mentoring and coaching, that's kind of in line, right? Like being transparent, showing your fallacies, cuz now you're leading and inspiring versus like teaching and managing.

Jason Andrews (20:07):
Cause I think, because I think our kids, like they have so much, much pressure, like whether it's said or not, they they'll act like they don't respect us or like us, but they look up to us as parents and feel like, man, I can't do what, you know, mom or dad has done or I can't measure up, you know, and they've got pressure for their friends. And then if there's church culture and pressure, they've got that. It's like just all this, you know, everything online or whatever. So I do think like just that vulnerability makes a huge difference, you know?

Young Han (20:38):
And then what do the kids say when they like, like talk to your mom and, and their grandparents about this and, and kind of like your past, like I know you're saying you have these transparent conversations, but like what is their, what is their reaction and how do they process this stuff? Do they have a lot of questions?

Jason Andrews (20:55):
Yeah, totally. But again, we just, we, we talk about it sometimes. Like they just wanna hear more about the stories. Like, I mean, we, we, I mean, you know, I mean, like give you one example. I mean, my, I didn't even know the guy's real name until actually just this last week and one of these other things. Cause it was someone posted a picture of her on the, on the wall. But like one of the guys that my mom dated was a guy named trigger. Hmm. And he was a, like a big bearded, like drove a Harley. So like it, I remember being five years old in the back of a Harley, like holding on for dear life, you know, like just going fast. And so just some really wild, crazy stories that, that I've told my kids, but like they, they like, it's like, you know, in their minds they're like, well man, tell us a story about you being on the bike with trigger. You know, it's just like to them, it's like this, you know, they just like, it's part of the folklore. It's part of the, like the, you know, whole thing. And I think that, you know, they want to go off and, and create their own. They don't want they and they go, okay, we know like let's stay away from this thing or go this direction or here's the consequence or whatever, but it's all pretty fluid. We talk about just different things all the time, you know, whether it's, you know, past present, future, whatever. Right.

Young Han (22:03):
And is that like a focus point? Is that like an intentional thing that you're trying to do is like build that, you know, open, open, transparent relationship with them to talk through everything.

Jason Andrews (22:11):
Yeah. I think to your point and you and I have talked about our parents, you know, a number of different times. I, I think for me, like whether it was being, you know, a founder of a business or being a dad, I, I think it, it means continuing to change for what's going on today. Like I want to be close to my kids and I'm not gonna, I can't parent them, like I did before. I've gotta learn, like to your point, like how to transition to a coach, a mentor, an advisor, a friend, and just, you know, try and love them as they're figuring out life, because they're gonna make choices that I may not agree with or may not like, or they're gonna do things. And I find which I think you do, you know, it takes a lot of work to like, just love them for who they are versus trying to like disapprove because they didn't do what I wanted them to do.

Jason Andrews (23:00):
And then that typically I feel like just creates resentment or distance because, okay, well, mom and dad just aren't happy with my choices, so we're not close. They're gonna go off. And like, so I don't know. I just, I feel like I want to be able to have an ongoing relationship. That's continuing to grow with them as we all mature. And that means me saying stuff that I do that they're like, dad, you're being a jerk or whatever, like, or you're, you're just totally, you're expecting me to be something I'm not, instead of just being in them and being a, you know, like being, being there and learning. And I think that just means continuing to grow and learn and being transparent about my biases and things, you know, things that I don't like about them and that they don't like about me. And just being able to like, kind of work on it, like any relationship is how I view it.

Young Han (23:49):
Yeah. It's kind of funny because when you think about like how you work and I, I know this cause I, I work for you at limelight, but you, you also parlay a lot of that in, in work. And how you lead, would you, would you agree or disagree?

Jason Andrews (24:02):
Yeah. And I guess, like, I think I try and view it as like, I don't know that it has to, I mean, I, I think my ideal thing is that you would have exactly that in a work setting as well, because you know, whether it's being the CEO or, you know, the people are like, oh, I gotta be, I gotta like act, you know, like strong or good or, you know, whatever, instead of just being authentic and going, like, can we talk about like, right. We work together on this a lot, which is like, how, how do you create a safe environment where people feel just that like safe to be authentic, because I think that's where you get a strong relationship and you get productive work. Like if, if we're like nervous and about what people think all the time in the workplace and, you know, can't and have to perform and either nervous we're gonna get fired or whatever, and can't, or, or, you know, worse people aren't open to feedback and input because it's a power position or power play. It just sucks because then you're in a situation where you're not gonna really be honest and you don't really know the person.

Young Han (25:09):
Yeah. And then you end up getting like less effectiveness because now they're just like agreeing to agree and then like turning around and not being all all in it. Yeah. It's like a, it's like a faux agreements. And so you're absolutely right. Yeah. And it's, so it's really interesting cuz like there's like this concept that I learned working with you and through limelight through a lot of those things that you kind of like forced us to have, you know, even though it seemed redundant at the time, you know, just telling you the truth, smiling,

Jason Andrews (25:34):
I'm smiling. Cause like the way you phrase it, like you forced us to do, we just talked about, but that's cool. Wasn't it was authentic. I thought,

Young Han (25:43):
Well, there were times right during, when we worked together where the, the, the choice was obvious. And even if the choice was obvious, you wanted to make sure we heard all points of view and it's like this level of like empathy and understanding that yeah, wasn't necessary in your position and your title yet you chose to do it. And it's really interesting because like, when you look at things like that, it's not those moments that you realize, you know, what you, who you are and, and how I perceive you and what I've learned from it. It's after the fact that you think about it and you go, you were creating, you know, your value proposition in my mind, right? Like who you were and how you were gonna be branding yourself. And you were the type of person that said, Hey, even if the facts seem like they're fully loaded, we're still gonna give the benefit of the doubt and take the time to like talk to everybody that's involved and understand their point of view. And whether it made sense to me in the moment or not the, the end goal was exactly what you just said. It's like, you're meeting people where they're at and trying to figure out like, Hey, can we unpack this and get like true buy-in in alignment versus, Hey, this is obvious yeah, yeah. You should line up. You know? So I think that's really fascinating that that's kind of like paralleled into work in school. I'm sorry. Not school working home.

Jason Andrews (26:57):
Yeah. I really love, you know, I don't know if you read or listened to Ray Dalio and he's head fund manager, they wrote book the book principles and he talks a lot about this. They've got a really interesting like work culture. And even like recently his son got in a car accident and died and, and he was very public about how he processed his grief and in the workplace that he's created an algorithm and a program am that literally gets people to be authentic and then work through stuff. And it's like, it, it's a pretty interesting thing because this pull point is that like, it takes a ton of work to really know what you and I think and feel, and to get people to be in a spot where they feel really comfort being truly authentic and honest, you know, without fear of retribution. Right. And I think like, that's, that's just something I feel like I, I don't think I do the greatest at it, but aspire to, because I think it just creates a much more enjoyable atmosphere, whether it's at home with family, whether it's at work and that changes all the time, what you think feel, and believe today may be D six months or a year or five years based all kinds of things. Right. So it's not like you can guy pick its point in time and go, cool. We're good. right. That's right

Young Han (28:12):
That's right. No, it's absolutely true. And I, and I love that you like are constantly trying to better that aspect of yourself intentionally. Right. Cuz I think that that's, what's gonna make you focus on it and then get great at it. And in turn that is what's gonna make you be more successful professionally and as a dad. I mean, if like there's one commonality, I, I love that you pinpointed that. I think I agree with you now that I look at it from the macro, it's like the one thing that you can parlay the skillset that you can parlay from work and home and be use it to be successful at both. Cuz there's a lot of things that you can't carry over. My wife hates it when I get into work mode on the family. She like, yeah. She's like, what are you doing?

Young Han (28:47):
This is the most ridiculous thing ever. And it's so she gets so annoyed, you know? And I think that that's one of those things that you can carry over very, very easily. And it works really well. And just from, just to kind of add to, to further validate the point that you made, like I've been consulting, right. And I've gotten the chance to work with, I'd say just like just under a thousand companies over the last, you know, year that I've been consulting. And it's like really interesting to think about the importance of that alignment buy-in and psychological safety trust, approachability, all the things that you really focused on, you know, during, and now, you know, back then and also now yeah, because a lot of these decisions as you start to play from an outside point of view and you get to see all of these different businesses, these different verticals, these different industries, they're all unique problems, but they're all the same problem.

Young Han (29:36):
Right? And so the answers become very simple for a consultant to come in and say, Hey, I just did this three times, like in, in Q2, let me show you how these three companies did it. And then I can make this faster for you. The issue isn't actually prob solving the problem for the business anymore. It's more about solving for people. And so I've like learned over the last year of being a consultant and getting to like parlay these problems solutions. It's much more people based. It's much more about like figuring out what that person is trying to get done or what they're trying to intend to do or what they want this other person to do and what this other person actually feels. Or if they're a hundred percent bought in or not. And it kind of comes back to this like full circle about what you said, like none of that matters if they're not fully bought in. And you actually won't get full efficacy if efficacy at all, because they're not bought into it. And so it's so important as basic as it sounds, that's actually probably more important than how the business tactic or strategy that you choose or know.

Jason Andrews (30:33):
I totally agree. Do

Young Han (30:34):
You, have you known this, have you known this fact for a long time? Is that why you're like I told you so,

Jason Andrews (30:42):
No, it's a weird thing being here because I wanna ask you a ton of questions about the stuff you're learning and what you're doing, but you're interviewing me. So I feel like I've just gotta answer stuff and not ask questions. So I, I do. I mean, I think that that's part of it, which is, you know, how do we, and even like, it doesn't mean that everyone right. Is gonna agree at the end of the day or like the, that, that just means we all like, you know, kumbaya who would all agree. I, but I think it's like, let's ha let's be able to talk it through and get as aligned as we can. And then we agree and pick a direction to go. I just think it, then people seem to be way more on page than if it's just like, okay, I'm doing this because I've been told, but I totally don't agree with it and yeah. Or understand it, or, you know, that's right. Or I'm excited about it. And then I'm gonna do a half baked job, right?

Young Han (31:30):
Yeah. No, it's, like really crazy cuz it all stems back down to that. And, and it's like, it's like proving the point as I, as I start to get more and more numbers to prove to that point you're onto something. And I think that's absolutely correct. How do your kids respond to your, your kind of meteoric rise? If I, if I may say, cuz I know you're very humble about it, but you've for lack of better words came from the bottom and now you're here <laugh> to quote a rapper, a famous RAPR. Right? Like what do they think? Because in a very short amount of time in, in their youth are not even fully like, oh, maybe Wesley, you can consider it as a full adult, but they're still molding. Right. And they've just like changed their lifestyle tremendously in a short amount of time. What, what is that like? What, how do they responding? What do they think about it?

Jason Andrews (32:17):
I think they're, I mean, I think generally they're pretty levelheaded dudes, which I appreciate, but I think that you're right. They've been able to who, I mean, they certainly have been, have not had the rough kind of upbringing that I had, but they certainly to your point have seen, you know, us go from kind of high stress, early stage startup, you know, to then having a successful exit and, and, and all that. So I think they're appreciative of it. They're grateful they hype it up. Like you just did a little bit more, you know, like yeah. And like, whoa, dad, that was really cool, man. Like yeah. Can't believe you just, you, do you believe that you just did that? You know? So like, so you know, that's encouraging and I, I think that my hope is that they are able to like, when they're thinking about what they're doing, cause I they've seen, like there's been other ones that like, as stuff I've done that hasn't been as successful.

Jason Andrews (33:14):
So I think that's right. I'm just hoping, they'll kind of see like, Hey, you know, let's keep trying until things work and you just don't give up or get discouraged. I mean, you have discouraging times and times you quit, but you know, like just keep going. And so that's what I'm hoping they get out of it. Right. Is that take some time and, but you know, if you have something you believe in, then go for it and don't worry about the outcome, cuz you'll have some success and some failure and, and when you see the, you know, really good success, then you can celebrate, you know? 

Young Han (33:45):
Yeah, and, and you're, you're, you're always been, you've always been very, very humble. And is that something that you're like trying to intentionally teach your kids to be humble? Is that you think, why they're level headed or is that something just like they picked up?

Jason Andrews (33:55):
Well, I hope so. I don't know. Does anybody like working with arrogant jerks? Do you know what I mean? Like I mean, I guess, but it's like, so I don't know. Yeah. I mean,

Young Han (34:05):
I feel like you're humble to a fault though.

Jason Andrews (34:08):
Oh really?

Young Han (34:08):
Yeah. Not, no, not to a fault. That's kind of too extreme. I think you're very humble. Yeah. That's fine. I'd say if there was like, this is too humble to a fault is one and like, you know, arrogant is like a 10 you're

Jason Andrews (34:17):
Like she ask my wife, she may disagree with you. She may like, she'd be like, huh? Humble. Oh, that's funny.

Young Han (34:26):

Jason Andrews (34:28):
So yeah. I don't know. I mean, I think it just, I feel like I've been listening to a lot of other podcasts as well recently and I just, I feel like there's so much to learn. It's like what I, you know, like every time I feel like I've figured something out, I'm like crap. So I appreciate that. And do I think that I try and teach them that? Yes I do. I, I think that they can be very successful, very confident, but also I think that never hurts to be humble and, and you know, I think just being inquisitive and, and willing to learn, you know?

Young Han (34:59):
Yeah. It's like, it's like a tricky, my, my daughters are, they're starting to get afraid of Heights and like starting to get like learn fears and stuff. And I have this thing where I like to put my kids on my hand and like lift them up.

Jason Andrews (35:11):
I know I saw that. Yep.

Young Han (35:12):
Yeah. And they're getting scared and I'm like, come on, you gotta be confident. Don't be scared.

Jason Andrews (35:17):
Scared since you've been doing it. I watch you pictures. I'm like, okay, got it.

Young Han (35:19):
Okay. So there's, there's a little empathy for them. Not on me. Okay. Got it. Yeah. So I'm just trying to like learn to adapt to the fact that they're like starting to learn what fear is and being scared of Heights. And so, yeah, it's really, it's really hard for me. I know it has it pales in comparison to the, the gravity of the stuff that we talk to so far, but it really bothers me.

Jason Andrews (35:37):
Right. You know? Cause I'm like, you want them to be like afraid.

Young Han (35:40):
Yeah. Confident and fearless, you know? And I'm like, and I, and then I'm, I'm the one supporting them. I'm literally like, since you were a kid, the moment you could stand, I've been lifting you up over my head, you know, but long, I

Jason Andrews (35:50):
Just think you're gonna lift them up. Like how long would you keep? How long? 

Young Han (35:52):
Well, now I'll never know Jason. Like I wish I could answer that question.

Jason Andrews (35:57):
Well, I've, I hadn't thought about the fear aspect, but I've been wondering like, how strong are you? Like how long can you keep doing that? Like physically,

Young Han (36:04):
Oh God, probably not like six months. Maybe

Jason Andrews (36:09):
Because maybe what's happening is they're really smart. And that fear is just like, dad, can't keep lifting me up. Like this. That's a point in time where he's gonna say, oh, I always, oh, then like then they fall. Down's

Young Han (36:20):
That's right. They're really intelligent. And what they're

Jason Andrews (36:22):
Smart. They're not,

Young Han (36:24):
When they're like 30 years old, they're gonna tell me, they're like, Hey, we always knew you just couldn't do it. So we're trying to save your soft ego. Cause you're kind of fragile and,

Jason Andrews (36:33):
Or maybe you're just gonna get more and more buff. And when they're like 35 and they're married, you like, hold 'em up at their wedding. That's right. You have one in each arm.

Young Han (36:41):
That's right. Yeah. No, I've been working out like crazy. I'm like, I'm, I've been realizing in order to like be good at like essentially two jobs, right? Yeah. It's like being a dad and, or being a good dad anyways and being a, you know, a good, a professional that like grows your income and stature and, and realm like is a lot, is a lot individually on its own. And then like the audacity of wanting to be excellent at both requires an unbelievable amount of perseverance, physicality, mental acuity, like a lot of stuff <laugh> makes it sound like you know, like it's this incredible thing, but like it is. And so you have to like, if you really are serious about being good at both, like you have to work on your mind and your, and your because you, you physically cannot keep up.

Young Han (37:26):
Like, there are days where I'm like, I, I do 12 hours just back to back zoom meetings. And then right. I stop for two hours and I just muster up the, you know, the strength to like, be like normal and not stressed out and hang out with my, for two hours. And then I go right back to, to work right back to zoom meetings. And I try to squeeze into work at, at 10 o'clock at night, because if I don't, then I'll just get lazy and sluggish and, and it's, it takes, it takes a lot, you know, to be good at both. It really does. And I I've been struggling a lot with it over the last couple of years, but I'm committed to this idea that it doesn't have you one or the other, I, I don't wanna stop growing either, either aspect of it. What are your thoughts on that?

Jason Andrews (38:06):
I haven't worked out in like four years, man. So you that's maybe not entirely true. I mean, I've worked out some, but yeah,

Young Han (38:16):
Have, you do some, you, you always want to, you never get to it.

Jason Andrews (38:20):
So what do I think about that? I think that what you said is a hundred percent true. I, I feel like that's the most challenging thing and you know, like all jokes aside. I, I do think that you know, a lot of people talk about entrepreneurship or whatnot and it's like, well, you know, family work, friends, church exercise, you know, pick two, pick three, whatever. Like, and I actually think that's, if you're doing a lot, I think that's actually, there's some truth to that. Whether we want to admit it or not. Like, you know, I think some of my friendships over the years at different points in time have suffered some, I, I think exercise some, I, you know, I know some people are like, there's lots of loss of books and people are like, you can do it all. That's right. But I feel like, you know, we scale the company and I'm close to my kids.

Jason Andrews (39:05):
So I feel like that was a success. And some of the other stuff we didn't do as much of, and, you know, I just, I, I think that, and even, even in doing those to, at some points in time, one of the other ones suffered because I had to give more attention to my kids, which what they needed it. And I think that was the I thing to do. And other times I had to give more attention to the business and kids suffered and, you know, but always trying to come back to kind of get some quote unquote balance. But I think I, you know, some people do, some people seem to be able to do it, but like, I just, I think two is kind of my capacity.

Young Han (39:40):
Yeah. No, it's not easy. And I, I, I don't want you to think that I'm sitting here like working out and meditating like religiously. Right. I, I definitely fall off the wagon all the time and it's the first thing to go. Right. Cause it's never gonna supersede work and it's never gonna supersede kids and it's never gonna supersede like, yeah. Like basic like sleep and stuff. But any, any time I, anytime I sit there and like, Hey, like, you know, I'm tired, but I gotta do this. You know, you just like try to suck it up and do it. And you try to get a wagon and I'll have these nice spurts and stuff, but I've realized over doing these kind of spurts that I'm actually more successful at parenting and work when I do do workouts. And I find time to like, just be mindful or go for a while without any kind of thinking, you know? Totally. I feel like it actually exacerbates your, your, your abilities. And so there's something there, if you can, if you can stick to that.

Jason Andrews (40:25):
Totally agree.

Young Han (40:27):
So based on that, what do you, how do you qualify success as a parent and, and, and as a worker, cause going back to that, an original question that we kind of like skipped over, cuz I asked you about your child, how do you qualify success? As a parent now

Jason Andrews (40:42):
I think it goes back to some of the stuff we were talking about. I mean, I think in my mind, success is believing or, or seeing that I have a relationship I'm close to my kids because I think that these barriers that we're talking about, it's easy. I think if they don't feel heard or vice versa, you know, I mean, and, and, and we can't have a relationship then we're just gonna wanna get away from each other. Cause you know, it's like any, like we're here with each other, living in the same house all the time and we're different people. So we do things that drive each other nuts. Right. Or that we may, don't like. And so I guess for me it's more, the emotional intimacy, the closeness, the, the, that awareness is, is success that like, you know, when times are good or bad like that they wanna hang out or wanna talk or want to get help or whatever it is that is to me, success.

Young Han (41:45):
That's awesome. And I also love that you have like specific examples of what that means as well, too. That's really cool. So going back to another thing you commented about, you said you've been listening to a lot of podcasts what kind of podcast do you listen to?

Jason Andrews (41:59):
Oh man. Well, I listen to a lot of true crime stuff most like, but I mean all kinds of different things, but I also listen to, I've been listening to lots of podcasts about historical biblical context and just, you know, a lot of history. I also listen, I love a bunch of like, you know, how I built this from guy Raz and I think also Freakonomics and, and this American life, those are probably like the main ones that I listen to.

Young Han (42:33):
I, and I know this is like a really specific question, but when are you listening to the podcast? Cause I feel like that's actually very, very interesting. The, how, how people listen to podcasts.

Jason Andrews (42:45):
I listen mostly when I'm driving and I don't, we're not driving a lot based on, on that, but like anytime that I go to the store or, or go somewhere, go, you know, out and I'm alone in the car, I typically will have a podcast on nice. That's usually when I listen, I don't, I don't like if I'm sitting someplace, like I'm not listening to a podcast, I'm reading something or watching something or doing something. But so yeah, usually it's what I'm driving,

Young Han (43:13):
But you're, but for overall though, the podcast that you're consuming is, is a wide smattering of your interest. So it like feels you spill spiritually entertainment, value, business value learning kind of like a spattering of all the things that you kind of care about. It's not like a necessarily a focus.

Jason Andrews (43:31):
Yeah. Usually like self-improvement and business. I try and get away from when it comes to podcasts. It's my more way to check out because I feel like I do a lot of that other stuff, you know, day in and day out and I'm working in business. So, you know, I'll read a lot of articles or read more business books, but podcasts are away from me to just check out.

Young Han (43:52):
That's awesome, man. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. Maybe I should add that to my list of questions. I asked every guest. I think that's a good one. But now we're coming up to time and I know you're a busy man. Let's go ahead and wrap this up with some questions that I like to ask every guest. So I'm just gonna wrap a rapid fire these off for you, and then I'll let you let you go back on your busy day. Okay. Okay.

Jason Andrews (44:13):
Sounds great.

Young Han (44:14):
What advice do you, you have for other parents and soon to be parents

Jason Andrews (44:19):
Don't have kids run away.

Young Han (44:24):
That's amazing. It's also really funny because I, I gotta tell this story, sorry. I would've like make this podcast episode super long, but it's it's okay. Cause it's such a good story. I remember after we got pregnant and I told you, we were expecting, you're like, I'm like, do you have any Sage advice being, you know, a parent of three. And you're like having kids is broken down into three sections and they're like, basically three trimesters of seven years. The first seven years you is just physical pain. They just, that you can't sleep. They have to pick them up. You have to pick up after them. They, they like just hurt you physically. You get so old. So fast. I'm like, okay. And you're like the second seven years, they start figuring out who they are and they like start pushing their boundaries and they just hurt you mentally so bad. Right. You're just constantly of getting headaches and they're just like hurting you mentally for seven years. And then I'm like, okay, what about the third? And you're like, now they know what hurts you. And they do it anyways. And they just hurt you emotionally.

Jason Andrews (45:21):
I don't remember this by the way. I, I feel like you've, you've like embellished this story over the time and whatnot

Young Han (45:28):
I didn't, but I swear to, you said this to me and it was the funniest thing ever. And I, and I, I don't know. I don't know what compelled you to say it, but I, I was like, why wouldn't you tell me this before I had kids, which is kinda funny. Cause now you're telling the advice of not to have kids. I love it.

Jason Andrews (45:43):
No, I think in all sincerity, I'd say just take the pressure off and try and enjoy them. I wish I had done more of that even, but like, you know, it goes by super quick and everybody says that and, and I think it also, I have always, particularly as a younger parent, I felt this incredible pressure to be, you know, like I gotta be, I gotta do everything that books say, you know, reading all the parental books and none of them, it never works out the way that any of the books say or like, you know, every family's unique. So I think I'm, I've learning over the last years to just enjoy a lot more. But I think in the early years, I would've just enjoyed them at whatever stage they're at and just appreciated

Young Han (46:31):
It. Nice. Yeah. Next question I have for you is if you could go back and tell yourself one thing before having kids, what would it be?

Jason Andrews (46:40):
Don't have kids. No, then again, if I could tell myself one thing, it would be what I just said. And if that's generic, then let me know and I can come with something else, but no, what it is, it was yeah. Go into the first. It was like, I was really anxious, you know, I don't wanna mess him up. I wanna do everything that, that, you know, all the parenting books say and, and try. And, but I just, I, you know, looking back, I go, I wish I had been a little more lax in some ways, because it just, just so stressful trying to like, you know, I gotta do these things, but there's just, there's really just no formula for it.

Young Han (47:19):
Yeah. That's a great answer. What is the most surprising thing that you've learned about yourself becoming a parent?

Jason Andrews (47:27):
I, I probably, I think that I just, I I've had, I've had to really work hard at it because as I mentioned at the beginning of the show, I mean, I had a lot of mentors and advisors and particularly, and, and, you know, as I became a young adult and then to, you know, manhood and all that, but I, I didn't have a model of what it meant, like how to be a dad. Do you know what I mean? I mean, I've read stuff, gotten advice, talked to people. So I think I've had to really work at it and that's been, you know, I, I think it just, it, I mean, maybe it comes more natural to some folks who had a relationship, you know, close to their dad or did a lot of stuff, but I'd say that's probably the, the thing that's been the most reveal for sure.

Young Han (48:10):
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah. And then my last question, what's your all time favorite business book?

Jason Andrews (48:19):
I would say that so far the one that I just mentioned earlier, the show is, is Ray Dalio principles and just packed chalk full with the lots of stuff. But that's, that's a tough question too, because I think the hard thing about hard things, which a book you recommended to me is, is, is a great book. And I think just the different cycles of, of, you know, building a business and, and so forth. And I think that's, you know, Ben Hoss a great book.

Young Han (48:47):
Yeah. That's my favorite. Yeah. It's awesome. Book. I, I, I love that book. Very cool. Jason, thank you so much for taking the time to absolutely hang out with me and talk to me about parenting and, and work. I, as always love hanging out with you and I learn so much again, and I feel like every time I talk to you, I learn something new about you. So it's really, really great to have you on the show. Thank you for your time. And yeah, I look forward to yeah. Catching up with you next time.

Jason Andrews (49:12):
That was awesome. Thanks young. Thank you.

Young Han (49:15):
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the girl dad show, we really hope you enjoyed that interview. And as always, please take a moment to review, rate and subscribe. We'll see you next time.

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