Episode 4 - David Silverander - On Designing the Life that You Want

Learn more about David on his LinkedIn and his company on their website.

Episode transcript:

Young Han (00:00):
Thank you so much for joining me on today's show. 

David Silverander (00:32):
My pleasure, Young.

Young Han (00:33):
I'm really, really grateful for you spending the time with me. I, I know you have a busy schedule and I really appreciate you being able to talk to me about something that isn't necessarily business related.

David Silverander (00:44):
<Laugh> looking forward to it also.

Young Han (00:45):
Let's start off by getting the listeners to know who you are. So who are you and what do you do for a living? Sure.

David Silverander (00:52):
What I do for a living, I do a few different things right now. I'm doing some consulting and doing some writing projects, working on a couple fun things with you. Most recently before that I, I, co-founded a company. We launched a pretty cool product on Kickstarter that did really well before that I've done operations, finance, a a few different things throughout my career.

Young Han (01:13):
That's awesome. Yeah. And I think you're being a little bit humble. I, I feel like you've done a lot more than that, but that's either here nor there <laugh>. Cause you also did something pretty cool before or the Kickstarter thing as well. I mean, you've had a long history of like exploring different realms in different career aspects and yeah, I mean, I, I, I mean, if you don't mind sharing at least one of 'em, cause I know, I know you and I'd love for the, the listeners to know the context behind this, but you even got into some stock training and investing and

David Silverander (01:40):
I did, that was actually the first thing I did right outta college. I had a degree in philosophy in 2005. Weren't a lot of philosophy jobs to be had, but I'd always been pretty interested in the stock market. My mom traded stocks back in the day. And so I was kind of familiar with it and learned about options trading before it was real trendy, but loved the leverage in volatility there. So I spent a few years at different times of my life doing that and then have spent a lot of time working on tools for retail traders, professional traders tools for myself. So my background's really more in software. And then just more recently in life, I've gotten into consumer goods products, which were fun. I spent some time working in a running apparel company, which is fun, cuz running's a big passion of mine. So it's neat to kind of see the business behind that sport.

Young Han (02:28):
I didn't actually know you were a philosophy major. I always assumed you were a finance major.

David Silverander (02:34):
Yeah. You know, I thought going in for sure. I thought I would be an econ major and yeah, I really love economics, but like macro econ 1 0 1, I just, I couldn't, I was like, if I have to draw one more, some applying demand chart, I just, I didn't find it interesting. And philosophy was what I found really interesting. And I had gone to a school that was kind of more liberal AR liberal arts focus. And so I decided to just kind of lean into that. Cause that's what I liked. And at the time I thought I'd probably go to law school, but then I realized I didn't wanna be a lawyer. So yeah. It served me well, it's not the most directly applicable, but you know, the thinking skills are useful for everything you do, obviously.

Young Han (03:11):
No, it's really cool. I mean, I, I know you, so it's, it's a little bit unfair. I have the unfair advantage, but it also helps to, to know you in this, in this circumstance because you definitely approach life, both work and parenting with kind of like a philosophical mindset. Like you're, you're always looking at it from like all the different angles and all the, the, the pros and cons. Like you're always like assessing it from all these different points of views. And it's pretty interesting to hear that that's kind of like where that initial passion and kind of like inclination steeped from, because I never actually even knew that. So even, even me knowing you, I'm learning something new about you, this

David Silverander (03:47):
Is great. <Laugh> I do try and approach life that way, you know, that's or, or that's just how I approach life, you know? I mean maybe it's just natural.

Young Han (03:54):
Yeah. Philosophically. Right. What is the meaning of this? What's the point. Exactly. Yep. Yeah. So just before we get into a, what are some of the big projects you are working on

David Silverander (04:02):
You and I are working on really exciting project related to helping, helping teach people how to run businesses, which is something I'm really excited about. Cuz I think it's a great tool for empowerment and as you and I discussed a lot, it's something that is talked about in the way that makes it seem way more confusing and abstract than it is. And it's actually 9% of its common sense. And so I think we're doing some really exciting work helping to surface, helping to surface that common sense and put in front of people. And then I'm also working with some folks who have been teaching MBA students for a long time and are looking to kind of bring some of their, their greatest hits online. So that's another opportunity to just kind of help share knowledge. These people are experts in what they do and you know, just kind of need some help translating that into an online world. And again, I think it'll be really powerful for young people who don't wanna go to an MBA program or don't have the wherewithal to do that or whatever, but they shouldn't be, you know, separate from that knowledge just cuz they can't get into those universities.

Young Han (05:02):
Oh man, those are two really great projects. And if I can be biased, I'd say that. They're they, the first one sounds amazing.

David Silverander (05:09):
I think it's gonna be pretty good. I think it's gonna be pretty good.

Young Han (05:10):
I actually don't know that much about you, which is so funny. Cause we've talked about so much yet. We haven't gone more than surface level. So I'd love to ask you about your kid. Like tell me about your, kid.

David Silverander (05:23):
My kid. My kid is amazing. He will be 21 months on the 30th. So he's just getting to be super fun and really under like he is at that point where he's not quite talking yet, but he just understands so much and you know, he's just really joyful, you know? And I of one I've, I mean I think quarantine for us came at a relatively good time and that it was just like a lot of family time, you know, and just being, I, I love being able to be around him throughout the day and just kind of get little doses of his energy, you know, and it's cliche, but like having a kid had just, he starts seeing the world through their eyes and like the simplest little thing, like a little mud puddle or, or a bird or whatever you see, like how, oh, that is pretty amazing. Actually it's easy to get jaded and, and cynical as you get older. And I love how he kind of just washes that away.

Young Han (06:19):
That's amazing, man. Yeah. I love it. And so you have an almost two year old boy. Yep. And that's the only, you just have one kid.

David Silverander (06:27):
Yep. Just, just the one. Yep.

Young Han (06:29):
Any intentions of having more? 

David Silverander (06:31):
It's something we're talking about. I think we both, we both probably like to have another one. We're not sure a hard toward that destination just yet, but it's something we've can talk about more and more. And I think sounds, you know, once you, you have two kids, right? Like yeah. Once you've done it once. Well, I don't know. It'll be fun to have a sibling and it doesn't seem as intimidating. I think there's parts I would appreciate about the newborn phase a little more if I, you know, not having all the kind of fear of being a new parent, maybe soak it in a little differently.

Young Han (07:01):
Yeah. I think that for us, it was like we wanted to like group 'em as much as we could together. Cause yeah. Our logic behind that was it'll be easier if we're just kinda like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And so we like ours are two years apart and we were like going, trying to go for the third, but like, cause I wanted a lot of kids, but we kind of stopped it too because I, what you don't realize in this logic is that they're hard work. And so they're really tiring, you know? And I'm like, this is, I don't know if we can add another one. This is like, this is unbelievable. And it pushes you way beyond you, what you thought were your limits in, in physical tiredness. And so it's a fascinating thing that parents to go through. It's kind of incredible.

Young Han (07:42):
And so I, I know, I know that we've talked about this briefly, but the whole point of this podcast for me is like trying to like, you know, balance between my desire to like keep growing my professional career and also like balance my desire to be a good parent and learning how to do that. Right. And just like any other thing that I like to do, I try to start by researching and understanding how other people do it. And so this is kind of the impetus for the, the podcast. And so what I found is that as I get older and I start parenting, I've realized that a lot of my parenting style and foundations and values comes from my upbringing, whether that's mimicking or trying to enhance or augment or completely contradict. But I'd love to start by just like asking you, what was your childhood like?

David Silverander (08:26):
My childhood was great. I think it was kind of unusual in, in some sense. So I I'm an only child and my parents split up very shortly after I was born. And so I grew up and then they had joint custody of me and they, they were friendly and they lived in the same town <affirmative> so I had very much a one-on-one relationship with both of them separately. And they were both very, very intelligent people and really never, I don't know if it was a conscious decision, but they didn't really treat me too much like a kid, you know, they, from an early age, they just kind of talked to me and treated me, like I could understand what they were talking about, what was going on. And so I think that certainly shaped me a lot. And I was one of those kids who was kind of more comfortable around adults than kids really kind of feel like I didn't really understand a traditional family cuz I didn't grow up in one, like you just said, you know, like whatever you grew up in is what's normal to you. And so I think that always made me, I wasn't someone who imagined having a family, but as it's coming to my life, it's just like the greatest blessing, you know? And I'm, I'm so glad that that's what happened, but it's not like something that was for,

Young Han (09:36):
Do you feel like there was like impact in your current way that you're parenting, like based on how you were brought up? Like what do you feel like you're mimicking some of the things that you grew up with or are you trying to like, cause obviously significantly different just at the literal level. Yeah. What does that look like for you? What's the, what's the major different that you're seeing between you and your parents?

David Silverander (09:58):
Because of that I'm really aware of, I mean, he's two, so it's not, it's kind of impossible for it to be otherwise, but like of him having a childhood, you know, and, and that the kind of innocence and fun that is just comes naturally, the kids, you know, I think if kids are put in situations where they have, have feel responsible for things like kids will take that on, but it's not really the best that there's plenty of time in life to be responsible for things. And so, yeah, I just really want him to feel supported and loved more than anything, which I certainly did. You know, I wanna have fun with him and we do have a lot of fun, but I think one thing I, I do carry on from both of them certainly is just the idea that like, you don't know how much they can understand how early, you know, and so there's no reason to talk down to them and he, it flows.

David Silverander (10:49):
I mean, I'm, I'm sure you've had the experience of like, wow, how do you know that word? Or how, how do you understand what I'm saying right now? Like they're, that's right. You know, their intelligence is a they're listening quickly. I just assume that assume he understands more than I think. And it's made me, you know, he's at that phase where he just will mimic things. And so it makes you hyper aware of the small things you're doing and the big things you're doing and assuming like, well, he's gonna just be copying those patterns of behavior. So try to be really conscious about that and setting just a good example on a day to day basis, I would say is kinda my focus and then just spending a lot of time together as a family. That's really like, I think that's something frankly, like I just didn't wouldn't really have that as like a family unit, you know, the nuclears but all three of us and he really seems to enjoy it, you know? And, and so do I, so for prioritizing that, and when I said like, for me, family is more important than work. Like that's, that's a value that like I've become pretty clear on and like really try and live every day. And it is important

Young Han (11:53):
To me you're making some big moves, right? Like you have had a couple of really exciting entrepreneurial experiences hit some really large milestones with, you know, some of the companies that you've started, you've made the conscious decision fairly recently. I'd say like even within the last year, six, seven months to like, I take an intentional approach on your life to adjust it, to meet your new value prop of this time, time, over time over work.

David Silverander (12:22):
I did step away from my day to day role there earlier this year. Yeah. Largely cuz I wanted more time and, and kind of energy for my family. And as you know, like being the co-founder of a startup, particularly if you're in charge of the operations, it's not a, a job you can put in a box and say, oh, it's five o'clock, I'm done. You know, there's always messages and meetings and, and that's fun and exciting. And when you're younger, I think that's great. But I just realized like there's gonna kind of constantly be a tension between putting as much time into my family as I want in the business. And so for me at this phase in my life, it just was pretty clear to me that I wanted to be able to put my family first. Obviously there's like a lot of privilege embedded in that and being able to do that, you know, and, but at the same time I had that opportunity. So that's what I wanted to do. My dad worked a lot. He's a great dad, amazing man. But he worked all the time. He just liked working, you know, I think that's why it worked all the time and he made a great living and he supported us and you know, we paid for private school and college and all kinds of amazing stuff, but I wish, I wish we would've spent more time together. I had the chance to change that. Yeah.

Young Han (13:31):
That's wild. So because you wanted that, you're making that intentional decision to change the diet dynamic in, in your kid

David Silverander (13:40):
Trying to yeah. Yeah.

Young Han (13:41):
That's amazing man. Cause I, I met you during this transition. I met you when you actually started to like figure out how to like control your time and work and like starting to do consulting for that exact same reason, which is really, really like, I think where we bonded a lot because I'm, I mean obviously like I started the same early last year and so maybe Sam, a similar time we're going through this, you know, like very similar time, we're talking months here that we're kind of going through the same life cycle in our yep.

David Silverander (14:08):
I think that's why we connected so much. That's probably

Young Han (14:11):
What it was. Right. We're both just like, we felt this like kindred spirit. We're like, oh my gosh, my, my brothern, you know, like the same kind of emotional, a mental journey and, and, and struggles quite frankly, because it's a weird jump. I, I feel like with society today and how we qualify success, it's very, very difficult to explain. I don't know if you've ever talked to your parents about, let's actually ask you, how do your parents feel about you doing this jump? What, what do they say? What do your family say about this?

David Silverander (14:36):
My parents aren't around. I lost my mom about 10 years ago. And then my dad passed away last year actually. And that, that to be honest is another thing that contributed to really wanting to go on what mattered to me now because you know, I mean, it's again cliche, but like losing people really makes you realize that life is pretty short. You know, my mom was 57 when she died, my dad was 70. You never know what's gonna happen. And like, I do know that today, like I can go to the beach with Milo or whatever, and that I don't know what's gonna happen in the future. You know? So it's kind of optimizing for the present in that sense. And, and that, that was a big push to really be like, yeah, you gotta just do what really matters to you. And there's not necessarily gonna be more time.

David Silverander (15:24):
My dad ran his business until a few months before he died, which was a huge accomplishment, you know? And he, like, his business was almost as old as me, like as a, you know, his other child essentially. And it's amazing what he built, but also like, I think, I always imagine he would have that time after he was working to do whatever he wanted, you know, which he certainly earned and he didn't get to have that, you know? And that that's really sad obviously. So that for me was a big impetus to go, you know, you gotta, this is the, the urge you're feeling like you gotta just listen to that dude.

Young Han (15:58):
That's wild. I am so sorry for your loss. And I can definitely understand how that could force you to like really rethink your life. Right? Like you just like casually layered in all these like incredible tidbits of monumental information that I'm sure philosophically you're just like wrestling with, right? Like this whole idea of like, he worked so hard for what, you know, and then to like ex you know, be able to like spend some time and, and then he wasn't able to spend that time and not to say that it doesn't mean anything, but like, you know, just kind of re-looking at like how fleeting life can be. And I, I, I can, I can just like see all the and variables and like, and, and the calculations you probably went through and had to go through. And not that it's bad or good, right.

Young Han (16:42):
Cause there's no judgment, no, no matter which way. But all you can do is try to like do what's gonna make you happy and fulfilled. And I think that you're very, very brave for being so transparent and sharing. So thank you for, for doing that. And for whatever it's worth, I empathize. And I, I completely understand what you're saying, even though I haven't experienced that fully. I do know. I do know what you mean. Like in a much lesser way, I've been like, kind of struggling with the same concepts. Like mm-hmm, <affirmative> I look at my dad and he, he's still, he's still alive, you know, but he, you know, he has some health issues and, and whatnot, but it's like, it's, I don't know where I saw this, but someone said this they're like, you gotta like, look at your parents.

Young Han (17:23):
And I think he was like, he was like a successful entrepreneur, you know, these like influencer types around like social media, about business. And he was talking about like how he had to like slow down intentionally because he calculated backwards. How many times he thought he was gonna see his parents. And it was like the weirdest thing. Right. Wow. Cause he's like, he's like, my parents are like 70, you know, like the average age, you know, they're, they're decent help. They're let's say he lives, he lives for 15 more years. Right. He lives to be like 85. Right. Let's say that's good. And, and maybe he lives to 90. Great. But let's say I see them like twice a year. Cause I'm busy, I'm running my business. I see 'em on Christmas. And then I see 'em at like my kid's birthday. Right. Great. So I see 'em twice a year. So now that's 30 times. I'm gonna see 'em that's 30 more times and I'm gonna see my parents. Right. And it's like, and I'm just like, what the heck does the, the wildest concept, right. Like just like blew my mind. And, and so morbidly, I did the exercise as well. <Laugh> like, naturally you start doing it. And I'm just like, oh my gosh, we gotta go see my parents from my perspective.

David Silverander (18:19):
You know? And I know obviously a lot of people have challenging relationships with their parents and for good reasons, but I do think it's an important relationship to put effort into. And when they're not here, you know, you'll, you'll probably wish that you had that's right. And again, that's something that you, you know, if they're here now, you know, they're here now. You don't know what you get in the future. You know, I think we spend so much time. Yeah. Just thank it on like, oh, it's gonna be different later. Well, we'll all, you know, we'll retire to some compound, whatever, you know, like sometimes people make that happen, but usually life just kind of keeps going on in its kind of automatic way. And, and that's great, you know, or it can be great.

Young Han (19:00):
If we can get into specifics. Can you like talk us through like what you actually articulate? Cause it sounds like you put some pretty strong specifics and containers on what this new value prop in lifestyle looks like you. And I know we've had some brief conversations, you know, over the last few months, I guess what I'm trying to get at is like, it sounds like you actually have some black and white things that are non-negotiable now.

David Silverander (19:20):
I mean, I would probably be a good exercise for me to like actually really codify it that way. I would say the biggest thing. I, I like working. I get to do cool, cool work. And it's really amazing to be able to work from home and work. You know, what I like working is what I like about work is what I do when I want to. So like, I think maybe you're similar. Like sometimes my most productive hours are 9:00 PM to 1:00 AM or whatever the family's asleep. And like I just get jamming on stuff and, and I like working that time and it also means that yeah, during the day, if we want to go to the park middle day or whatever, we can do that. Like, I, I, I got just pretty burn out on the like, you know, eight to six zoom meetings. And like, I like feeling like I own my time and that there's not, you know, how, like when you're in a company, like all of a sudden, you know, the Calendarly, whatever, there's just meetings getting put on your calendar, you look at your day and you're like, where did my day go? You know? And like, I don't, I mean, I don't find it that productive for most companies either.

Young Han (20:22):
You're just reacting. You're just reacting. Yeah. You're just reacting.

David Silverander (20:24):
Exactly. And like, yeah, I guess that's what I most wanna be. It's just kind of deliberate with, what am I doing with my time? You know? And frankly, before I at a family, like, yeah, I don't know, work was kind of a great default thing, but like once you have a family, like hanging out just with the family, like becomes in and of itself for me anyway, a pretty satisfying activity, you know? And like eventually my will be in school and everything. And like, but right now it's really great to just be able to be together. My wife, you know, as you said, having a kid it's really hard and like Kate, my wife has done more childcare than I do, certainly. And, and so whenever I can kind of just give her a break or help support her, that's really I, to me too, you know, it's important.

David Silverander (21:08):
That's the other aspect of our family obviously is our marriage. I didn't grow up witnessing a marriage. And so again, it's another thing that like, I'm kind of figuring as I go and it's really important to me to, to do a good job. Like my wife is the best thing that ever happened to me by a million, you know, just to be good to her and, and give for everything she deserves is like really important to me. You know? And obviously like I'm our primary income earner. So work is an important component of that, but yeah, it's kind of a decision to make work, fit into life instead of the other way around. Wow,

Young Han (21:40):
This you're a lot more complex than I, than I, I realized that's like a huge amount of very serious stuff that you are now and trying to create for yourself. You're literally designing the life that you want and trying to, and it's really, really intentional. That's very, very wild. I had no idea. Yeah.

David Silverander (21:58):
It's funny. You mentioned that phrase cuz like that's a book. I don't know if you're familiar with that book, but designing your life is a, a book actually our, our mutual friend Vick or beyond too, they use design thinking to say like, yeah, what, you know, what are your beliefs about work? What do you want your relationship to work to be? What are your values? You know, and a lot of people would never in life have the opportunity to have that whole discussion and you know, like they gotta just go earn a living. And, but I have a little bit of breathing room to, to do that. And so it's important to me to do it. Cause like you said, you never, you know, you put things off for a later day. You don't know that you're gonna get that later day.

Young Han (22:34):
Oh man. I totally think that that's an incredible insight and a good way to think about it. And I, I think it's also so like interesting because you're so grateful and humble for what you have, you know, and, and you have the humility to know that this is even a luxury in itself. Right.

David Silverander (22:49):
It's important to look at that. Yeah.

Young Han (22:51):
You're almost like Zen about everything you're trying to like find, find the center for everything and like, see like how you can, can continue to aspire for what you want, but still be grateful for

David Silverander (23:01):
It. I would say that's definitely like my, my mom's legacy in so many ways. My mom was, I, I like to joke. She, she was woke before woke was like a thing. You know, she, she was a, a white woman from Ohio who like, she went back, she didn't graduate college when she was young and she went back and she actually graduated from college. The same year. I graduated from high school and she studied black studies because that's what she was really interested in. And she was just someone who was keenly focused on people who were underrepresented and appreciated and under-resourced, and, and all of those things. And so she just, it, you, you know how like the way your parents see the world, it's impossible for you not to have that lens. Maybe it's not your primary lens, but you see it, you know? And so a lot of these topics that are so big right now, you know, white privilege and cultural things and, or things, things we've been talking about for a long time as you, most of us have the experience of getting older, realizing that your parents were right about a lot of things that you didn't realize when you were younger, you know, and she was right about so much of that.

Young Han (24:02):
Obviously this is impacting your works. This question is like, how are you navigating the work like balancing because you are also, you know, very ambitious and you're also very successful in your work career trajectory. And you've done some really extraordinary things. And you have some amazing stories by the way. <Laugh> but that's neither here nor there, cuz this is a parenting podcast. So we won't go too deep into those amazing things you've done. But how are you balancing that with this new kind of like value prop and kind of direction that you're trying to intentionally build your life for? Like how do you approach

David Silverander (24:33):
Work? I'm sort of thinking, you know, short term pay the bills and then long term, like build the dream, whatever I'm 38, you're always learning about yourself, stepping back, like what is the work you really find versus maybe the work that you're good at or you've got an affirmation for, or that pays the best or whatever, you know, and kind of pulling that all apart and going like, well, if you, you know, if in five years I could just be doing this kind of work, what would that look like? You know, that's a, a scary process for sure. Or can be there's my making the space to do that. Cuz I know again, like that's the only way you're gonna get there. You know, trying to give myself the time and space to reflect on that and dream a little bit, you know, take a little, a little bit midlife, pause to dream and you see so many people get themselves in situations that they just feel kind of tracked.

David Silverander (25:25):
You know, I remember that was what was like my first corporate job was 20 for or whatever. And I looked around and I was just like, man, if I'm here in 15 years and I have that guy's job, who's been here for 15 years. I am not gonna be happy some days, frankly, I feel like, what am I doing? You know, what am I doing? What have I done with the opportunities I have in my life? And am I making the most of 'em and you know, I think we all have those days where you question whether you know anything, but and it's hard, what you parent, you know, you have that responsibility, but it's a great motivator too. And

Young Han (25:53):
Then are you, are you kind of thinking about parenting the same way? Like do what's good for now or do you have some sort of master plan for that as well too? That's obviously a huge component of why you're doing this or are you like putting guardrails around like the aspects of like ad hoc park days? Like that's like a, that's like an untouchable thing or is that, is that also, is that something that's also kind of like short term and then long term you have plans for? No, I don't

David Silverander (26:16):
Really have, like, I wouldn't say a master plan that I have certain non-negotiable like, I always want him to feel loved and supported and safe, you know, and taken care of. And other than that, I feel like we're like, we're on, we're on this journey together, you know, and no, I wouldn't say I have really a master plan in that sense.

Young Han (26:35):
That's awesome. And that's okay. Right. I think that's the, that is the plan in itself is to kind of like just be intuitive and, and try to feel it out and figure it out. It also sounds like you're, you're kind of juggling a lot of different things. So I think in some ways you can't actually say this is the plan because it you're doing a lot. You're trying to design your work life. You're trying to design your new life for yourself and your happiness. And you're also trying to design a life where you're trying to build this family and also a mirror to me,

David Silverander (27:03):
That's what parenting comes down to is it's juggling. And that's like, like you said, it's the hardest thing, but it really makes you grow too. Cause you're like, well, okay. I can pull a little more outta myself than I realize. Cause cuz I need to right now.

Young Han (27:15):
Oh yeah, totally. Like I, I think like the, the, the biggest shocker for me was just like, how little sleep you get, like the first time or two of like a child's life. Like, and you don't even like, cause I feel like, you know, I've worked hard, right? Like I've, I've grinded at startups. And I built my own companies and I remember staying up like, you know, all the, all the all night long for weeks, right? Like sleep on an hour or two and then like go back at it. And just, it's just like adrenaline and focus. And this is more tiring than you're like, how could I possibly sleep less? You can. And you, you literally will.

David Silverander (27:49):
Yep. It's humbling. I, I would say I was pretty, very humbling, naive thinking like, ah, I, I don't think it's gonna be that, you know, we went to like the birthing, you know, the class with other expecting parents. And I was like, I don't think it's be that hard. Like we're like, my wife is a champ be an ultra runner. So she runs, you know, 50, 60, a hundred miles at a time and I've crude her for that. I'm like, well, you know, we've got this endurance thing down, but like, yeah, it is it's every day, there's no break, you know? And it's this thing that you care about more than you've ever cared about anything in the whole world.

Young Han (28:19):
Yeah. And it's mentally draining and emotionally draining. And then it like makes the physical part, even that much harder, but you still muscle through it for some reason or another, like you just get through it and biology, incredible <laugh>. Yeah. And it's like, so your, your threshold is like magnified. It's like, it's so much bigger than you think you can push yourself. And I think that is like one of the biggest like ahas, like as a, as most parents that I see go through is that like, they start to realize like, oh my gosh, I actually didn't know I could do that. And then you start to like, I don't know, like you tell me how you feel about this, but I feel like I just have like a bigger appreciation for everybody. My empathy level's like so much higher, you know? And like I'm a lot less judgemental and just much more like relaxed. And do you feel like you're the same way? <Laugh>

David Silverander (29:02):
Oh yeah. I mean, it just, it connects you into humanity in this different way where you're just, you know, you've, you're seeing this person start from zero and come to the world and yeah. You see some, you know, kid throwing a tantrum on, at a restaurant or something and like, yeah. You just have different perspective on everything, you know, a hard parenting is. And like that parent who's overwhelmed in that moment or whatever. Like you can understand, you know? Yeah. I think it does make you less judgemental

Young Han (29:29):
Pre pandemic. I, yeah, I would've like, I mean, this is all pre pandemic, but like when I was younger and I'd see that I'd get annoyed, right. I'd be like, oh my gosh, that's so lame or annoying. Now, when I see, when I saw that like pre pandemic, I like want to help the parent <laugh> I'm like, yeah, can, can I hold that napkin for you while you address that? Or like, you know, you just wanna lend a lending hand, you know, that being said, like, do you feel like that has parlayed into your view on work and the projects that you work on that level of like empathy and, and the kind of growth of like your understanding of humankind?

David Silverander (29:59):
I think it's highlighted for me how important that is in my work, you know, to be connecting with people and like, you know, I think both of those projects I talked about what's exciting to me is like the idea that I could help bring, put knowledge of people's lives that would help them, you know? And like on the other extreme would be trading, right? Like trading, I always said, you make money or you lose money that like, that's really all that happens. You know, you can, maybe you could come up with some reason why you're contributing to the world, but you know, you're not like you're really, probably not. And that's fine. Like, I don't, there's nothing wrong with that super intellectually stimulating. It's exciting, but I wouldn't that it doesn't fill me up. And so, yeah, I guess I realized like, yeah, I'm kind of a, you know, hippy hippy person in that sense where it's important to me to have that in my life and kind of acknowledging that about yourself. Yeah. I think having a kid has opened that up more and more and, you know, having a kid, it's, it, it makes you very are vulnerable in some ways, you know, cause you do care so much and they're so fragile and you love him so much. And I think that vulnerability also leads to strength and growth, you know? So as much as I want him to be able to be exactly who he is, then I'm kind of can bring that energy to myself a little bit too. Yeah.

Young Han (31:23):
Do you think that you qualify success in business a little bit differently and than you did before?

David Silverander (31:26):
Yeah, I think so a much more if there were some hypothetical scenario where I was just like had a little business that was paying all the bills and no one, it had no prestige associated with it. No one knew that I did that. That would be fine. And I think there was a time in my life where I was like, oh, I wanna be thought of a certain way and this and that. And my, you know, and like, I just, I just don't really care right now if those things came along with something I was doing that I loved fantastic, you know, but like that's not what I'm shooting for, you know? And I think that's been a big growth process really extending back to even before, well really like all the way back to when I left financing technology, that was, that was cuz my mom was ill and I wanted to be with her.

David Silverander (32:15):
And like I had, I had a great job and was like, right, right. Where I wanted to be, you know, but my mom was sick and she didn't really have anybody else. And I didn't, I knew I wouldn't feel okay like going to work every day and being far away from her, you know? And so I, I think looking back that it, that was 2010, I was already being like pulled away from this like, oh, like maximize your salary at a certain age or whatever, you know? And yeah. So I think, you know, like that's who, that's just who I am and that's probably why like I look back like why didn't wanna be a lawyer like, oh, cuz that I, you know, it's probably the most efficient way to make a bunch of money at that time or go into I banking, I guess. I don't think I would've been that happy.

Young Han (32:59):
Yeah. In hindsight. Yeah. Absolutely. It's easier to look at that and see it. And it's really validating too, if you can like do that for yourself. Right. Knowing that those career transitions probably made a lot of big differences in, in who you are right now. And it's hard to like do that and then like have the realization later. But I mean, it's also really great when those things happen. You're like, Hey, I did the right thing by moving and changing those things. But I'm sorry to hear that. The, the other reason why that, that happened wasn't necessarily an ideal reason either. It sounds like your parents, your parents their death were, were really CATA catalyst for a lot of change in your life. Well obviously, well for obvious reasons, but also like, you know, philosophically and directionally, like really, you really take those moments and you like learn from it, adapted it and kind of like intentionally drove yourself into different directions.

David Silverander (33:47):
Yes, very much. So I think I knew, I mean, to put it bluntly, like I, from my mom died, I knew I was gonna be really sad for, you know, and I saw that as an opportunity, like, well, let's just push really deep. What all is, well, you know, I had a, I love my mom a lot. We also, she was a pretty challenging person. We had a pretty challenging relationship. And so it was just a time to like unpack all that and go, well, what, what else there, how, you know, how's that driven you to where you are right now? Where do, where do you really wanna be? You and, yeah, that's because I came home at back to Santa Barbara that's time. That's why I met my wife. That's why for the last 10 years I saw my dad once or twice a week instead of like once every three months, you know? So that's another blessing and I'm not sure, I believe that everything happens for a reason, but when I look at that particular Zig or zag in my path, I'm, I'm grateful. I made the decisions I made.

Young Han (34:40):
Yeah. And I, I, I am too. I mean, I don't think we would've met if you didn't and I'm also really glad that because you made those decisions, we're kind of on the same journey, not obviously in the, in the way that we got here, but also like just in the, like the way that we're thinking about our parenting, like trying to build a career and trying to build this lifestyle, that that is much more intentional to what we want. That is really like, it's, I guess it's more, it's just more balanced and kind of like more thoughtful in the sense of like, not being, not succumbing to, you know, what we societally accept as normal success. And

David Silverander (35:15):
I think, and that's one thing I think is cool in society. Like I love that you're having this conversations with people and like, I think, and that's part of what motivates me to be pretty open up about the path I've been down is like, I think we all do better when we can be more real with each other. And, and the nature of work in society is changing so rapidly that like, it is possible to work from home and make a good living, you know, for a lot of people. And that opens up different possibilities, you know, and, or work three days a week or whate you know, whatever. There's just things that weren't possible before. And like the old taking the train into the city, every, you know, weekday, like, that's not, you know, some people still do that, but a lot of people there's other possibilities

Young Han (35:59):
Now. Yeah. There's a lot more possibility. That's a great way to say it. I have basically four questions that I want ask every guest. So there's some symmetry to what I do here. And so I'd love to kind of just jump into my last four questions and just kind of rapid fire at you. Sounds great. All right. So what advice do you have for other parents and soon to be

David Silverander (36:16):
Parents, I think be kind with yourself, seek out other parents that you respect. You know, don't think of it as if there's one right way to do things. You are gonna get a specific human being and think of all the adult human beings, you know, and how different they are. And you're a kid. You don't know what per that person is yet, but it's the process of getting to know them. And don't judge yourself. If, if your friends are sleep training, their kids, then they're sleeping perfectly in two months and yours isn't, it's not cuz you're doing something wrong. You know, I think just that, that kindness with yourself and just to soak it up, you know, like it, I mean, everyone says it goes so fast, but it does, you know, and you look back at pictures from three months ago and you're like, oh, it was so different, you know? So yeah. To try and be present with, I think.

Young Han (37:00):
Yeah, absolutely. If you could go back and tell yourself one thing before you, you had kids, what would it be?

David Silverander (37:07):
I guess that, you know, you'll, you'll do okay. You have decent instincts and and you'll figure it out. That's great.

Young Han (37:15):
What is your all time favorite business book?

David Silverander (37:19):
My all time favorite business, I would probably have to say high output management by Andy Grove, which is not, not like a bar burner, but man, that guy is smart and I'm a big fan of the hard thing about hard things. Also Ben Horowitz.

Young Han (37:35):
Yeah. I that's my favorite book. Yeah. Can you, can you message me the other book so I can like read that one cause I've never even heard of it.

David Silverander (37:41):
He's amazing. He is an immigrant became the CEO of Intel and yeah. Genius.

Young Han (37:47):
Wow. Yeah. I mean for you to say someone's the smartest person, you know that, I mean, I definitely want to read that book. Yeah. That's, that's, that's quite the compliment. Okay. And finally, what is the most surprising thing that you learned about yourself? Becoming a parent.

David Silverander (38:01):
I mean, this maybe sounds not great, but how much I like it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I was pretty scared to be a parent. I didn't, like I said, the whole family thing, I, I didn't really, I just felt like I didn't really know what that was like and man, I love it. It's it's so there's just so much sweetness and light there. That is just awesome.

Young Han (38:21):
That's awesome, man. Yeah. Hey, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me today, David. I really, really appreciate it. And it was really, really fun getting to talk to you about parenting, but also getting to know you better. I just like learned so much about you and I hope that all the listeners that are checking in also learn something from you and can glean some insight on how they can navigate their life and how to be a good parent.

David Silverander (38:46):
Yeah. It's my pleasure young. And thanks for, thanks for starting this conversation. I think it's, it's so important for people just to talk about the reality of parenting and, and it's different for everybody and you know, kudos to you for, for getting these conversations going.

Young Han (38:59):
Oh, thanks for saying that. Yeah. I'll talk to you soon. Okay. Sounds good, bud. Thank you.