Episode 34 - Robbin McManne - Accepting Challenges

Robbin McManne (00:00):
Make peace with and accept the mom we are, the dad we are, and also accept the kids. We have, I believe full stop that the way to change the world. Isn't how we raise our kids. I think that even though you're gonna make mistakes, you are so enough. You are enough.

Young Han (00:29):
Hey guys, I'm young, a full-time dad and a full-time professional with the goal to become the best parent possible. The girl dad show is my journey interviewing fellow working parents aspiring to be both good at work and parenting. I'm gonna do this by gathering and sharing unfiltered perspectives from my guest. So join me as I research parenthood one interview at a time. Robin, thank you so much for joining me on my show.

Robbin McManne (00:53):
Thanks for having me Young. I'm super excited to be here and super excited to talk to you.

Young Han (00:58):
Let's jump right into it. So why don't you tell everyone what you do for a living?

Robbin McManne (01:01):
So I am a parenting coach and I come from being a really angry, overwhelmed, just completely stressed out mom, to having found out of sheer desperation, a way to connect with my kids to now helping parents do the same thing. And I have a son and that has a lot of extra needs and that really kind of kicked my butt. And as a mom, you know, I felt right from the start that I wasn't good enough. And yeah, I've, I've, I've had a really rough go, but I know that there is a better way and a new way and a way that we can thrive as parents and also raise our kids to be the best that they can be. 

Young Han (01:47):
I am so excited to talk to you because you are building what I'm trying to learn. Like, so it's awesome. You're gonna be able to like educate me and hopefully teach me some things that I don't know. And sounds like you are definitely hyper focused into being the best parent and you made it your business.

Robbin McManne (02:04):
Yeah. Well, I love that. You're a girl, dad, cuz I'm a boy mom.

Young Han (02:06):
Oh awesome. We have a boy equal counterpart. That's great. We gotta talk about that as well too. Yeah. Yeah. I I love being a girl, dad. I actually did not want to be a girl, dad. I was like, oh, I really want boys. I really want boys. And then I I love being a girl, dad. Like I love being a girl dad

Robbin McManne (02:25):
I thought the same way about, about boys. I was like, uhoh what am I gonna do with these boys? Yeah. Right. Cause I'm such a girly girl.

Young Han (02:33):
I, I totally like, I see like a bunch of my friends that have boys and I'm like, wow, that's very different than my girls. Yeah. They have a lot of propensity to break things and break themselves. It's really really funny to watch the differences at that young age. Right. Like my kids are really young.

Robbin McManne (02:51):
Yeah, both my kids have had hospital visits that needed surgery and that's amazing. Yeah. They do break things themselves. 

Young Han (02:59):
Well, tell me about your kids. How old are they and, and what do you mean about like the trajectory I want to dig into this. Yeah. Tell me about your kids.

Robbin McManne (03:04):
Yeah. Well, so, so I have two boys, they're teenagers, 16 and 13. And my oldest, he kind of, he kind of came out this way. He, he was the, the kid where I went, you know, he was, he was 11 days overdue when I had an epidural not to get graphic. He went up and set it down. Right. That's not good. Right. So he was trouble from the start. And then when I had him I had to have a C-section and I couldn't couldn't nurse him. I couldn't, you know, I couldn't calm him down. He wouldn't sleep through the night. So he came to me like ready and kind of ticked off at the world right already. And so it sent me down this shame spiral that I wasn't, you know, I couldn't like, I couldn't even do the things that my body was supposed to be able to do, supposed to with air quotes. Right. And and so as, as he grew up, we, we learned about him right there, there are some things that are going on with him. So he, his brain is different and he has ADHD. He has learning disabilities. He also has obsessive compulsive disorder. And that's no joke, you know, people will say it sort of, you know, flippantly like, oh, that's my OCD. Well actually, if you really have it, it is no joke. And so with OCD comes OCD, rage, and he's also defiant. The word no is something he can't handle. And so I found myself yelling all the time and so angry. I just needed him to listen to me and he wouldn't listen to me. And I mean, I've never felt so angry before in my life as when I was first parenting and I was so depressed and went down this, this deep dark, went into a really deep, dark place where I thought I might leave my family, and I maybe thought I might leave this earth too. Like that's how bad it was, and I needed help and I tried to get help, but I heard so many people tell me that it was my fault, you know, that I needed to do better. And that wasn't right. That wasn't true. And it wasn't until I actually found this peaceful parenting or conscious parenting where I finally had somebody say to me, like, you know, it's okay if you lose your center before your child does, like, you can forgive yourself. You can go easy on yourself. You know, that also understanding why my child acts, the way he acts is key to, to being able to respond and not react. Just that understanding, you know? And I didn't know about brain growth. I didn't know about developmental stages. I didn't know about any of that stuff, and that stuff really matters. And I always say that parenting is the one thing. It's the one job we do. That's the most important job we do in this entire world, but we didn't study for it. We didn't go to school for it. You know, we don't have mentors, we just have our parents. That experience is all we have. And so there, that's why there's so much shame around it. And there's so many parents that say, well, I should know how to do this. Why should you, how should you, you don't go to Ikea without getting instructions to put up a shelf. 

Young Han (06:16):
Right. And here's a human component, and yeah.

Robbin McManne (06:18):
You now have to make them thrive and I'm gonna judge you. I'm gonna criticize you when I think you're doing it wrong. And it just, it was kind of helped.

Young Han (06:25):
Yeah. And it's also really, really interesting that we don't talk about this more because I, I think I'll put my wife a little bit on, on, on here too. And she, she struggled a lot with this as well, too. Like the imposter syndrome and like struggling to feel like she's adequate or doing it good enough and comparing herself a lot. I mean, I, I definitely struggle with it, but not as bad as my wife did for sure. Because she, she definitely went down some, you know, negative thoughts. I mean, I definitely struggle with it in the sense of like what you just made the Ikea joke. It's like, wait, that's it. Like I have a, I have a kid and I'm like, you're sending me home. Like, I there's like some sort of training or some sort of like onboarding process. Like it was like, oh, like, wait, that's it. I was like, are you sure? Like, I don't have to like get certified or like, right. There's no license for this. Like, yeah. Like I was very surprised. Like it was a moment I'm like, oh my God. That's, that's it. Okay. So now I'm a parent, I'm a dad. I'm I'm responsible. Okay, cool. Yeah, it was kind of a shock factor, but you're right. There's a really weird stigma around it. And I think it's kind of funny too, because not funny in the sense of like, ha ha funny but funny in the sense of like it's so abnormal, because if you think about, if you actually think about it, at least from my point of view, I don't think I've met that many people that have had no issues. I feel like I've, I've met more moms that have had a lot of issues and dads that have had a lot of issues than I had people that are like, oh, it's fine. And there's all these things that are like, stigmatized around talking about it. That is so fascinating actually. Now that I think about that, why is that?

Robbin McManne (07:59):
I, I think, I think for a couple of reasons, I think, you know, as women, especially we're told all of our lives that we're gonna be little moms, right. We get baby dolls, we nurture these babies. Right. And that's part of our nature. We're nurturers. So that's not that far off, but we're told all of our lives that we're gonna be moms that we've should be moms. And then when we are, it's really hard. And because there's this whole facade and this perfectionism that, you know, seems to exist around motherhood, this fictional mother doesn't exist. Yeah, exactly. This perfect mother doesn't exist, but we feel like we need to raise ourselves up to this fictitious standard. That again, doesn't exist. And we kill ourselves trying to be that we, you know, and the pressures that we face are you better bounce back from your baby body right away. Right. You better have a child that has good manners and is well behaved all the time. You also you know, you know, better be you know, have a, have a great relationship and, you know, have, you know, all the things, you know, kids in seriously. Yeah. In the right clothes, like all of the things, right. The best tools, all, all this stuff. And most of us are working too. And all the pressures that come with that it's so much. And then you go on social media and it's the worst. And I don't wanna vilify that in any way.

Young Han (09:25):
Oh you can. But it's the worst. It, yeah. It's the worst. Yeah.

Robbin McManne (09:27):
Right. It's the worst. It makes me feel terrible. And even to this day, I'll see things like, I mean, I remember when, when my son was, I think it's, and you can take your home alone course. And I remember all these kids getting their home alone courses and, you know, just a day course, all these kids getting their babysitter certificates. I'm like, wow, must be nice. You know, like there's no way my son was interested, wanted to.

Young Han (09:52):
Yeah. And it's too hard to emotionally disconnect and like my not, not compare like your natural human instinct wants to do that. And it just makes you slowly feel bad about yourself. Yeah, totally. Yeah.

Robbin McManne (10:03):
Totally. Yeah. And I think that there is, so if I can just add one thing, please, I think that what would really help us all is to make peace with and accept the mom. We are the dad we are, and also accept the kids. We have, you know, I fought for a long time wanting to change my son, wanting to fix him and I just need to accept him. And I need to accept where he's at, who he is and then see all of the other beautiful, full strength that he has because he's not just OCD. He's not just a defiant kid. He's so much more than that.

Young Han (10:43):
That's amazing. That's amazing. I love it. That level of acceptance is really Sage. I, I think that you're speaking right to me right now and I'm sure you're speaking to a lot of people by saying that, but I definitely need to embrace ideology a lot more because I have so much expectations on myself and so many expectations for my kids, but you're right. Like, it's like, it's, it's about like, just accepting that you're doing you're you. And you're also accepting that you're doing the best that you can with very little instructions, but I'm like dying of curiosity here. Can I ask you about childhood? What, how did you grow up? Yeah. What was your childhood like?

Robbin McManne (11:22):
Yeah, so I I had a great childhood. I grew up yeah, I, I live in Vancouver, British Columbia. Nice. So I'm Canadian grown, you know, born and raised here. My mom is German. She came here from Germany met my dad right away. He, you know, is, is Canadian. And and yeah, we grew up, I have a sister you know, we, we sort of moved around a lot, but all within Vancouver. And I did have a dad, my, my dad passed away a few years ago. And and so he was pretty domineering and was somebody who I think he had ADHD himself. And so he, wasn't a very good listener. And that I know now was one of the biggest triggers for me is when my son wasn't listening to me, it was really me screaming at my dad to listen to, because in, you know, the, the paradigm shifts, right. And it becomes like, okay, I have the power now I'm in charge now. Now you have to listen to me. Like my dad was with me demanding, you know, of me and all that. And it wasn't until I realized, oh, that's actually, I'm trying to get what I didn't when I was a child. And what we don't realize is how much, those little injustices, those little infractions, those little hurts come back to impact us in our parenting and our kids totally. Unbeknownst to us will mirror back to us what we really need to heal because when there's a trigger, that means there's some pain underneath that. Trigger's right. So, but, but in general, my childhood was really great. And yeah. I, I, yeah, I, I love my family, my mom lives with,

Young Han (13:07):
With oh, wow. That's awesome. And, and what does, has she like talked to you at all about like your parenting style and, and like what, what she thinks about the, that,

Robbin McManne (13:14):
Oh, yeah. There's, there's some history there for sure. You know, when I was first a mom, you know, my mom could see that I was struggling, but I didn't really want anybody to know. So, you know, that's the shame part of it. She would clip out articles, like cut them out of the newspaper for me on yelling and why yelling was bad and why it wasn't good. And So broke my heart. I'm like, mom, I know I shouldn't yell, but I don't know what else to do. Right. It was awful. It was awful. It was awful. And my son spent a lot of time with them because he was so hard for me, you know? And then I had my second son. So they they did, they, they helped him.

Young Han (13:51):
If you don't mind me asking what was that second a kid? Like, I mean, because if you have such a difficult first, what, first off, what prompted you of a second? And then what was the second kid like? Yeah.

Robbin McManne (14:05):
So true. Like, were we crazy? Here's the thing you forget, you do forget how hard it was. And Aiden, my, my second one is the opposite. He's a gentle soul. He's such a love bug. And I, I always say to parents and I believe it to be true myself, that you get one of each, you get the, the easier one and you get the harder one. And, you know, we always knew that we wanted more than one and we could see that it wouldn't be good for Parker, our oldest to be the only child, you know? And and it was, it was definitely a discussion, but yeah, we, we, we knew, we knew that if it was as bad as the first one, that we could survive that.

Young Han (14:55):
Yeah. Your plate grew. Yeah. The mountain you could handle just grew because of yeah. 

Robbin McManne (15:00):
Because of the experience and people would tell us, they would tell us when you add a second one, it's like having four more. It was like no issue whatsoever. It was like, we still had the one. Wow. Cause it was so easy.

Young Han (15:12):
Yeah. It was great. That's awesome. And then, so when did the transition happen from building this business? Like, so when did that happen to being a parenting coach

Robbin McManne (15:21):
Through the, the journey of finding the, the, the way that I wanted to parent and the way that I wanted to connect with my kids, I, I, I ended up hiring a parent coach and I, I went to this conference on parenting and and there were these parent coaches and I'd never heard of that before. And they were all over me because I was a total mess. And and then I, and then I thought, okay, you know what, after this conference I felt so inspired. I was like, and I said to my kids never gonna yell at you again, you guys, I'm never gonna yell. And five minutes later,  Like I didn't have, I didn't, I didn't know really how I knew that I wanted to. I knew that I had more peace. Yeah. You know, but, but I absolutely didn't have the tools or the knowledge, right. Or the solutions to actually get me to this new place. So hiring the parent coach was the game changer for me. It I, the transformation was so unbelievable that I couldn't deny it. And I knew that I had to do it. And so I come from marketing, I come from, you know, doing marketing in my corporate career to this. And so it was around 2017 that I, I was able to transition into doing this full-time as a business.

Young Han (16:40):
That's amazing. So cool. Yeah. Can I ask what made you stop? What made you stop? Cause that couldn't have been an easy decision financially or professionally to stop doing corporate marketing to, you know, being an entrepreneur. Right. Cause you're essentially switching stability for instability, for lack of better words. 

Robbin McManne (17:01):
Yeah you got that, right. Yeah. There's no doubt about that. Luckily the company that, that, that I work for they were doing a, a big restructuring, so I, I got a buyout, so they basically funded my, my business for a year while I, you know, still got my salary. So was really lucky, but I felt like it was sort of divine intervention. Yeah. You know, really that it allowed me to have that. So I'm really lucky cuz that's not an easy, I don't know how I would've done it. I would've at some point, but I don't know how I would've without that.

Young Han (17:32):
Yeah. So it's just like timing was very, so serendipitous for you. It sounds like it's almost sounds like the world was telling you to do it. And so you said, why not? 

Robbin McManne (17:40):
Let's do it, one hundred percent. And I, I knew, yeah. I knew that I wanted my life to matter and I wanted my life to be in service of others. I always knew that. And marketing wasn't cutting it. Yeah.

Young Han (18:03):
Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. Okay. So now, now you're painting the picture for me here. That's great. So, so what are your, what are your parents and or your, or at least your mom at this point and your kids think about, and your family, think about you doing this, this parent parent coaching business. 

Robbin McManne (18:19):
You know, it's really sweet. Actually. They love it. Like my oldest son is so proud. It's so sweet, Yes. And he, he yeah. He tells people what I do and you know, Aiden wants to work in my business

Young Han (18:36):
No way, which is so cute.

Robbin McManne (18:38):
Yeah. He does. He's like, what can, can I work for you?

Young Han (18:41):
Wait he wants, he wants to be in parent coaching.

Robbin McManne (18:44):
Well, I don't know what he means by it. I think what he means is like, can I help you with some of your videos? Or can I do some of this stuff? Like he just wants to help me. Yeah. And, and, and Parker is he's, he's pretty cute. And so I wanna tell you, I'll just tell you this really cute little story with Parker. So we had this appointment at a pediatrician's office and it was awful. Parker was in a really bad place. And he was the doctor that I lie. He was kicking my chair as he was talking, he was angry. He was volatile and I was embarrassed. And I was like, and this was as I'm a coach. Right. This was all of this. So I'm living it as well. It's not like, it's not like it's night and day here. He still is who he is. Right. And I, I just have to parent him in this way, which absolutely helps. But anyway, he, he was, he was in a really bad place and I was so embarrassed and we left the office and I, I was just, I just was like straight staring down the hallway. He's like, mom, are you okay? Are you okay? And I'm like I can't talk right now. I need a minute. And he's like are you mad at me? And I'm like, I can't talk right now cuz I was very angry. And he said, okay, hold on, mom. I'm gonna do what you do. Okay mom, can you tell me what you're feeling? And I said, well, I'm feeling embarrassed. I'm feeling angry. I'm feeling sad. And he's like, okay. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So literally he had heard me on the phone with my clients through

Young Han (20:19):
The munchkins were doing the same thing to me.

Robbin McManne (20:21):
Oh wow. That was a pretty beautiful moment.

Young Han (20:24):
But did that, did that help close the loop for him? Like in, in how he, he made you feel or?

Robbin McManne (20:29):
Yeah, I mean, we definitely were able to reconnect after that. 

Young Han (20:33):
That's crazy amount of empathy for a kid to be able to ask those questions. And then I, I mean, I, it's awesome that he's mimicking you. Right. But like the reality is then that sparks the questions right. And sparks the understanding and hopefully closes the loop. Cuz the thing that I find the hardest and maybe you could gimme some free coaching here. The thing that I find hardest about parenting is teaching empathy. And like how do you actually do that? Like how do you actually teach a kid empathy? Right. Like besides like role modeling it. Right. And maybe that's all that is. I'm not really sure, but I should just ask the question and keep my mouth shut. So yeah. How do you teach I'm empathy?

Robbin McManne (21:08):
Well, okay. So, so first, you know, looking at that situation to me, the headline is that our kids are not their behavior. Like I know who he really is, you know? And, and that's, that's what I anchor in. And so in terms of empathy, I think you have to understand a couple things. One is that we often aren't taught empathy. You know, our parents didn't necessarily give us empathy because they didn't know what it was and empathy at its simplest form is you just being able to put yourself in the shoes of another person and see the world the way they do, whether you agree or not, it's not about you. It's just you seeing the world through their eyes. And so I, I think we kind of have that basic idea, but then we don't know the words to say for empathy either. Right? So so this, so, so there's that piece about what empathy is. Then you have to look at your child and you have to understand their brain growth and where he lives in the brain. And so I'll use my hand as this is the hand brain model, this is Dr. Dan Siegel that has, has done this is not mine, but what it shows you is a pretty accurate, a pretty accurate model of the brain. And so my wrist up my sort of my, my arm, my wrist up to the Palm of my hand is the brain stem and cerebellum. And that's where our children are born. They're born here and this house is survival. This is breathing circulation, hunger, but it's also fight flight and freeze. And then inside is the Amy amygdala. And so our babies are born down here, but then they move up here and they live in their amygdala, which is the emotional center of the brain. So they live here until they're seven years old. And that means they see the world through emotion, but because they don't have the top part of the brain here yet, the outer, most part of the brain, the prefrontal cortex, they can't understand it. They can't articulate it and they can't deal with it because the prefrontal cortex houses, the most important stuff, it's houses, empathy, compassion, emotional regulation impulse control the ability to, to think ahead to things and calculate risk and different things like that. And so if your child is doesn't have your child, doesn't have a fully grown brain. So that means empathy is gonna be hard for them, right? So all you can do is show them, empathy, teach them empathy. And they will, by the teaching of, by, by the modeling of empathy that you've given them, they will then learn empathy, but our kids are very self. You know, I don't wanna say self-centered, but they they're, they're trying to survive so they can look selfish. They can look, you know, D different ways. And when label that we don't actually see what's really going on. And then we see our child as this label. And that takes us so far away from empathy and compassion and curiosity.

Young Han (24:15):
That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. I, I had no idea about those physiological developments and timing. That explains a lot actually. And I'm kind of like, it does, it really does. It's really important information. I mean, I don't know why. I don't know that. I feel like I should know that, but I don't. And that's really fascinating

Robbin McManne (24:34):
How could you, if there was a course that you were required to take that I also coach by the way you would know those things. Cause that's the first thing I start with. And and, and, and by the way that prefrontal cortex, it doesn't, it doesn't finish growing until mid twenties. That's why your teenagers do dumb things. That's why, when they're at college for the first year or two, they do dumb things. You know, they're able to, to think and have the forethought and all that kind of stuff, the rational thinking, but it's not fully developed yet, but it will be right. And so that's why when we see our kids and you said yourself, you have expectations for yourself and maybe expectations for your girls. That's, you've gotta keep that in line with their development. And also know that sometimes they just need more time. Like I look at my son who's 16 and I think, you know what? We got 10 more years, we got 10 more years of brain. You're gonna be just fine. You know, it lets me

Young Han (25:30):
Relax. Yeah. Cause when you look at the macro or at least the, you know, the forest from the trees, you're realizing these are all just like milestones that they're going through in their own way. Right? Yeah. And it's just physiological development and you really can't control that. I mean, you can, but you really don't want to. Right. Cause the reality is like you shouldn't put so much pressure on controlling it because the reality is that they're gonna grow through these developmental stages with, with, or without you, whether you wanted to or not. 

Robbin McManne (25:57):
Right. And controlling it. There's no, there is no control. You try. And I tried, but I made myself absolutely miserable and sick. And I had, I didn't have connection with my son. You know, I, the love was there, but the deep connection and relationship wasn't there, you know, and that's what carries you on, you know, your kids are not just with you for 18 years. They're they're with you for life.

Young Han (26:23):
Yeah, that's right.

Robbin McManne (26:24):
I know so many people that have bad relationships with their parents. Yeah. Because the parents continue to parent them or run their own agenda or judge them or criticize them, put them down. And our parents' opinion matters to us. And that, and as an adult, you, you think, okay, mom, dad, I'm good. I, I have a mortgage, I have a family. I have a really good job. I don't need you telling me what friends to hang out with or that you disapprove of X, Y, and Z. Like that's, you're not invited anymore.

Young Han (26:51):
That is so funny. That is so funny. You're absolutely right. We gotta be really focused on the elements of like parenting as the kid becomes an adult. Like that is so funny. Cuz I had that exact thing happen to me. Two years ago when I started, when I decided to quit my job and start my consulting business, I called my mom to tell her that I was gonna do this and I, you know, the, the idea behind it and she's like, you know, well I think you shouldn't, you know, you shouldn't it or at least let's like think some more about it. And like really like let's, let's, let's spend a couple more weeks thinking about it before you actually do that because it's kind of risky and da, da, da. And I'm like, oh mom, I think there's a miscommunication here. I'm not calling to ask for permission. I'm calling to know, I'm going to tell you that I'm doing this. I'm I'm like just notifying you cuz you're my mom, I'm making a big, like this. She's like, okay, well let's just keep thinking about it. And she just like, didn't listen to me. And I'm like, oh mom, I'm I'm a, I'm a 40 year old man. Like yeah. Like I have two young kids in, in a mortgage and, and all that stuff. And I'm like, this is like, I'm, I'm, I'm already doing it. Like it's already, the decision's already been made. I'm just bringing you along for the ride is just like not nothing bad. Right. I mean, I love my mom to death. She's a sweetheart. But like just, she just doesn't like, it's just, she can't turn it off. She can't turn off the fact that she's my mom. Yeah. And she's like fear of like me failing my business and fear of like doing something that's not stable and just making sure that I'm safe. But it's funny because you say that and I just realize that like I'm like, huh, that's a really funny conversation because I still think I hung up that phone. Not like thinking that she understood that I was doing this anyways. Like she still thought like we left, like with her still thinking that we're gonna think about this more for her approval, you know? Oh, that's so cute. It is very cute. That's

Robbin McManne (28:39):
So cute. It's really cute. And, and I mean, she seems sweet.

Young Han (28:43):
Yeah. It's the sweetest lady we've ever met. Very, very emotional huge heart, right? Like yeah. Very, very, very loving mom. Yeah. yeah. A little oblivious, but yeah, it's very, very love mom.

Robbin McManne (28:57):
Yeah. But the reality is, is that we do have to adjust our roles in our kids' lives at some point. And I know it'ss hard to do, but know once we get those teenage years, when we understand what the teen years are all about, which is them moving themselves away from us. But it's a confusing time for kids and for parents because our kids need us, but they don't want us. Right. And so it's like hug me, but don't touch me. You know? And so it's confusing, but that's, and we need to take the cue to back off a little bit, let our kids experiment, air quotes you know, with taking risks and you know, you know, just different things, but you do it with, with safety, obviously in mind too, but we have to back off a little bit, let them fail. My God, let them fall on their face because It's their life. And if you don't let their life path unfold in the way it's supposed to, for them, you're really doing them a disservice and yourself and their relationship. Because what they'll do is they'll stop talking. You they'll stop sharing with you. They won't wanna be around you. And I know nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. So you have no choice. You have to step back and just be there as a mentor instead and say, look, I'm here for you. If you want my opinion, if you want my advice, if you want my help, I am always here for you. And you just let me know. Yeah.

Young Han (30:20):
It's so wild. Because like, when you say it like this, it's so obvious, right? It's so obvious that you have to go through these stages as they develop and grow and the relationship has to change and the dynamic has to change, but it's like, there's nowhere where one, most people don't go through those kind of like trainings. It's like, it's a lot like situational leadership, but you go through like, when you go through like management training or executive training, but like how to like switch gears from someone that you need to like train and like manage versus someone that becomes capable. And then you can start like backing off and delegating. Right? Because then it's like counterintuitive to micromanage someone that actually knows, you know, there's like this transition you have to do with people. Yeah. It's the same thing that you have to do with your kids as they get older, except no one's training you on that. No one's telling you that that's what it is. And do you have those skills to even transition yourself and change yourself to adapt to the kids, to be the best parent that you can be for them. And then also, where does that knowledge come on when that happens? Right. Like even at the more specific level of development, this is really, really helpful. For me personally, this cause it's actually a way that a way of thinking about parenting that is much more specific and tangible. Like it's something that I can actually do something with. Yeah. Like immediately. So thank you for that. That was awesome.

Robbin McManne (31:32):
You're welcome. Well, and it's interesting that you equate it to leadership and management because I think what makes a really good leader makes a really good parent and what makes a really good parent makes a really good leader. In fact, I work with companies to help them with their employees who are parents and the, the lessons are universal. Right. You know, listening, curiosity those are two really huge key qualities of a great leader and a great parents.

Young Han (32:00):
I can see that. I can see that. Yeah. And I can see the parallels quite often, often. I mean, not to, like, I hope none of my clients take this personally, cuz I do a lot of business coaching. Right. But I will say that, you know in business it it's a lot like parenting. It it's a lot like parenting and you know, people still have those same needs and wants and stuff that are unresolved and they, they have trouble explaining themselves and whatever that may be. And a lot of the crux of the problems when it comes to business is not actually the mechanics of business. It's actually people you know, getting people to align and be, be SIM you know, I don't know, just, just comfortable with themselves and being able to move forward. And so it's so true and I love that you do that as well. Can we talk about your business for a second? I I'm actually curious. Yeah. So I, I'm getting a sense of like why you jumped to this career choice and I'm getting that the, you had the, you know, divine intervention to a certain degree and it's almost like the world telling you that you have the opportunity to go do something that you're passionate about. And I'm also getting the sense that I understand how you think about parenting now and the evolution you've made personally as a mom and now to a parenting coach. What I'm still curious about is how do you qualify success as a parenting coach? What does that look like? What does success as a parenting coach look like?

Robbin McManne (33:17):
Well, I think it probably always different for each coach, for me. It it's the amount of people I'm able to help. You know, it's the amount of people I'm able to work with. I believe full stop that the way to change the world. Isn't how we raise our kids. So gosh, I, I don't even stop to think about, you know, what is success? I just keep going, because I know this message is so important. You know, it's great for our kids, but it's great for our, the families, the communities, the economy, it's great for business, which is why I've kind of pivoted into this business working with companies and talking to professional because, you know, we're seeing with things like the great resignation that, you know, it it's the parents who are leaving because they've been hit the hardest. You know, of course our healthcare workers have been hit the hardest,

Young Han (34:12):
No I know what you mean in terms of that sector.

Robbin McManne (34:14):
You know, 43% of women will leave their careers when whole own life becomes too complicated, but we need those women in the workforce because what they bring to the workforce in terms of, you know, their ability to problem solve and multitask and listen and have compassion and those sorts of things, they make a great workplace. They make a workplace work, but if they're leaving, you know, what a shame. And so if we can keep them and we solve the problem of the ins civility that they're having at home and create a, a calmer, less chaotic family life, then they can show up to work being more resilient, being more rested, being more focused and more productive, which therefore is good to for the company, the economy and the community. Yeah. Right. They're inter they're intertwined. Yeah. Right. So so I'm pretty passionate.

Young Han (35:09):
Yeah. You could tell. Yeah. You're like talking about like big, big, your goals are much bigger than I mine are. I love it. You're I wanna, I know you're talking about economist level. This is fantastic. I, I was not expecting that and I'm very excited to hear that. And I'm like very inspired here. I'm like, yeah, let's go do it. But I, I do agree with you. I think that there is a lot of benefit in at the very least having a diverse set of contributors in a workspace being better than having a one sided kind of like thing. So even if it's just for the sake of having that point of view represented is very, very important. But I also do think that there is a lot of parallels between the two things. And so I also agree with that aspect as well. And then how you stitch it all together. That's, that's all you girl. You, you, you, you go for it. I got your back over here for, I love that you qualified by getting the message out. 

Young Han (36:05):
It sounds like you're insanely passionate about this. And that's really cool. Very, very cool.

Robbin McManne (36:07):
And there's nothing better than to see a parent say, oh, oh my gosh. That makes so much more sense. Yeah. Or, oh, that's all I have to do. Yeah. That's all you have to do. 

Young Han (36:20):
It's that one little tweet I will tell you right now live in this podcast. I've already had two of those moments where I'm just like, oh my gosh. That's, that's changing the way. I literally am thinking about everything that I just happened this last week, even. Right. So I know it's not, it's not the world, but at least in one dad, you've already made two impacts like that in this last 45 minutes. So very, very good. Okay, cool. So let me, let me keep this, let me keep this train moving, cuz I do wanna make sure I'm conscious of time and, and and I get to my rapid fire questions here. But if you don't mind, I'd love to switch over to four questions. I'd love to ask. Well, actually now I made it five, so we'll, we'll stick to the five, but I switched D from four to five, a couple of episodes ago. So but I want to ask you the same questions I ask every guest. So we get some symmetry to the conversation. Okay. What advice do you have for other parents and soon to be parents

Robbin McManne (37:15):
To let go of your expectations? Just accept what is just accept what is stop being at war with this present moment. Stop being at war with it. Just accept.

Young Han (37:28):
Love it. That's awesome. You started with it and you close with it. That's great. Very good. So at least, at least you're consistent. That's amazing at the very set of anything we talked about. That's awesome. If you can go back and tell yourself one thing before having kids, what would you tell yourself?

Robbin McManne (37:45):
I think that even though you're gonna make mistakes, you are so enough. You are enough.

Young Han (37:53):
That's so messy. So emotional that like cry. Just knowing your story, just knowing your story now. I'm like, oh my God. That's actually really good. Oh my, okay. All right. I know this is supposed to be a really lighthearted parenting podcast from a dad's point of view. You're like turning this into an emotional question. Yeah. Okay, good. It's good. It's good to have emotions. Yeah, let's get it out. Yeah. All right. Yeah. What is the most surprising thing that you've learned about yourself? After becoming a parent

Robbin McManne (38:25):
That I'm that I am very routine and very regimented. I thought I was flexible and free. Not at all. Oh, not at all. I'm not spontaneously very set in my ways.

Young Han (38:39):
That's awesome. That's so funny. That's a really interesting discovery. So it's almost like you had this like facade that you put out until you got a, became a parent, then you realized no, no, no. That's actually not me.

Robbin McManne (38:53):
Don't know. Maybe I went for, I'm outgoing to a hermit cuz I'm a little bit like, you

Young Han (38:57):
I know, it impacted you. Yeah. I could see that. Yeah. I could see that. Yeah. yeah. So on the business side, what's your favorite all time bus. What's your all time favorite business book?

Robbin McManne (39:08):
Oh my all time. Oh, thinking grow rich.

Young Han (39:10):
Oh cool. That's a good one. Yeah. I haven't read that in a couple of years, actually. That's really cool. I like that. It is amazing. Thank you for sharing that. That's a good one. I'll have to, I'll have to brush up on that one. And then my, my newest one to like to ask is what does Robin do when she's not being a super mom or a super parenting coach? What's what, what do you do for fun? What's your pastime?

Robbin McManne (39:32):
You know, I'm really lucky. My husband is like my best friend. We just love each other so much. So just being together with him and of course the boys, but my husband and I, we just, we just like to hang out, we go for walks. We go, we, we go out to eat a lot. Just the two of us cuz our boys are older now. So that's really our happy place.

Young Han (39:52):
Oh wow. Date nights that's are great. I like that. That's very sweet. Awesome. Well Robin, thank you so much for being on the show. I had so much fun and I learned so much about parenting. Probably more than, but yeah, this is awesome. Like I, I learned a lot about the physiological aspects of parenting and just like a lot of the concepts and I really, I really am really, really grateful for the knowledge that you been able to impart upon me and for how much you've elevate, I'm laughing, cuz you've elevated the quality of my podcast just by showering, showering the show with actual like knowledge about physiology and child development. And like it's so funny cause I have a parenting podcast, but I don't talk about any of that. Right. Yeah. So it's wonderful that you've just like, you know, just like add some like, you know, academic cred to my podcast here. It's so great.

Robbin McManne (40:42):
Well I'm so happy. Thank you so much for having me. You are so lovely and I love that we can have like such a great conversation. That's fun and light, but also meaningful like that doesn't happen very often. So I wanna thank you.

Young Han (40:54):
Oh, thank you for that. Well, I look forward to staying in touch and I again, thank you for your time and I'll talk to you soon.

Robbin McManne (41:00):
Okay. Thanks so much.

Young Han (41:02):
Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the girl dad show, we really hope you enjoyed that interview. And as always, please take a moment to review, rate and subscribe. We'll see you next time.

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